[GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.

Wed Oct 2 15:45:31 UTC 2019

That's a really interesting suggestion, but I would like to know a little more about what we in the group know: Does this happen to GIs (not in the US but in other countries) in order to let national TM offices avoid GI/TM conflicts?  If it does (which it sure seems like it might) do we want the notification to the TM office to trump the fact that it's a GI?  I'm open to that language as a change but we should probably understand what it means for GIs.

Rebecca Tushnet
Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School
703 593 6759
________________________________
From: Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 9:03 AM
To: Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>
Cc: Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham at expediagroup.com>; claudio di gangi <ipcdigangi at gmail.com>; gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.

Perhaps the heavy lifting could be done elsewhere?

3.2.3 Any word mark notified to a national trademark office as protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 2:14 AM Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu<mailto:rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>> wrote:
In GI-world, they distinguish between levels of GI-ness.  Some geographic terms merely identify the geographic "source" of a product, while others indicate more in the way of specific qualities.  So "source indicator" is in fact widely used to describe GIs (though many GIs are said to be source-plus-some-other-quality).  Some examples
https://www.origin-gi.com/images/stories/PDFs/English/E-Library/geographical_indications.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.origin-2Dgi.com_images_stories_PDFs_English_E-2DLibrary_geographical-5Findications.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=7s8Z71SEOge5sFwz9QH1S2IWHNP9TisJOPm_i4yk5Zc&s=WK20kgaZCGKBQ4B94sPoo-KjPEtqUB-JqZNZnaXbgPo&e=>
https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/web/offices/dcom/olia/globalip/pdf/gi_system.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.uspto.gov_sites_default_files_web_offices_dcom_olia_globalip_pdf_gi-5Fsystem.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=7s8Z71SEOge5sFwz9QH1S2IWHNP9TisJOPm_i4yk5Zc&s=yfv5W4B4dW_rAFsJ15ZtYMrXT-h9lL5CEDEdvXLwziI&e=>
Geographical Indication Protection in the United States United States Patent and Trademark Office - uspto.gov<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.uspto.gov_sites_default_files_web_offices_dcom_olia_globalip_pdf_gi-5Fsystem.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=7s8Z71SEOge5sFwz9QH1S2IWHNP9TisJOPm_i4yk5Zc&s=yfv5W4B4dW_rAFsJ15ZtYMrXT-h9lL5CEDEdvXLwziI&e=>
Geographical Indication Protection in the United States United States Patent and Trademark Office What Are “Geographical Indications”? “Geographical indications” (“GIs”) are defined at Article 22(1) of the World Trade
www.uspto.gov<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.uspto.gov&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=7s8Z71SEOge5sFwz9QH1S2IWHNP9TisJOPm_i4yk5Zc&s=-dGWIZIFTLf816sSTNhIShnHZ_3gZntCNfeZNkFAwvA&e=>

Rebecca Tushnet
Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School
703 593 6759
________________________________
From: Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham at expediagroup.com<mailto:migraham at expediagroup.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 8:31 PM
To: Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu<mailto:rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>>; claudio di gangi <ipcdigangi at gmail.com<mailto:ipcdigangi at gmail.com>>; Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup at gmail.com>>
Cc: gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: RE: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.

Wondering out loud whether GIs are necessarily “source identifiers”.  My understanding is that they are identifiers of particular geographic locations, whereas trademarks are source identifiers.  GIs may be source identifiers, but to the extent they are then they would be considered trademarks.  So . . . am I missing something in the terminology?

Michael R.

[cid:image001.png at 01D49D39.23E390C0]

Michael R. Graham

Senior Counsel and Global Director,

Intellectual Property, Expedia Group

T +1 425 679 4330 | M +1 425 241 1459

333 108th Ave. NE | Bellevue | WA 98004

Email: migraham at expediagroup.com<mailto:migraham at expediagroup.com>

[cid:image002.png at 01D49D39.23E390C0]

From: GNSO-RPM-WG <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Tushnet, Rebecca
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 1:50 PM
To: claudio di gangi <ipcdigangi at gmail.com<mailto:ipcdigangi at gmail.com>>; Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup at gmail.com>>
Cc: gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.

From my perspective, the key problem is that "source identifier" describes, among other things, GIs.  We can engage in special pleading against GIs and just carve them out, but I admit that leaves me a bit sour.  I also would note that the relevant statutes I've seen don't use the words "source identifier" either, so we are still shuffling off the interpretive weight to Deloitte.  (E.g., although the Red Cross also has TM registrations, the Red Cross US statute that has been mentioned in this discussion uses the word "use" to define one prohibited act, and "wears or displays ... for the fraudulent purpose of inducing the belief that he is a member of or an agent for the American National Red Cross" to define the other prohibited act.)

For these reasons, I have come around to not wanting to add "source identifier" to the definition--I don't think it actually solves the problem and it might make things even less clear.  Other than that, I do think we have gotten a lot closer.

Rebecca Tushnet

Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School
703 593 6759

________________________________

From: claudio di gangi <ipcdigangi at gmail.com<mailto:ipcdigangi at gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:11 PM
To: Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup at gmail.com>>
Cc: Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu<mailto:rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>>; gnso-rpm-wg <gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.

Paul,

I agree with you; and you have spotted one of the areas of divergence between my proposal and Rebecca's.

My proposal includes alternative language on this provision - that I believe addresses your point, but I am interested in your perspective.

Best regards,
Claudio

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 4:00 PM Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup at gmail.com>> wrote:

Rebecca, I believe in 3.2.3 you should not add the words "as trademarks" as the marks concerned are not trademarks. For example once such 6ter marks are communicated to the USPTO and are accepted it is not possible for any organization to register a trademark containing the mark and importantly that includes the originating entity itself. Instead an 89 serial is created so the mark turns up in an examining attorney’s search etc.

Best regards, Paul

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 8:04 PM Tushnet, Rebecca <rtushnet at law.harvard.edu<mailto:rtushnet at law.harvard.edu>> wrote:

This is the same text but with the subject line proper.

Rebecca Tushnet

Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School
703 593 6759

_______________________________________________
GNSO-RPM-WG mailing list
GNSO-RPM-WG at icann.org<mailto:GNSO-RPM-WG at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drpm-2Dwg&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=zNkRTU6mF0Z0D3-x2yYFYqRN-laL_rrDxkm1t3nS1D0&s=sIWgLf6tJOr4bVrRl2Kq-iflUaAJ5xM7solSCPqTSEM&e=>
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_policy&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=zNkRTU6mF0Z0D3-x2yYFYqRN-laL_rrDxkm1t3nS1D0&s=ACGGg3oDhOg63w3gCmDwRhR4IOgKM68xVpS38jPW6Ek&e=>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_tos&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=zNkRTU6mF0Z0D3-x2yYFYqRN-laL_rrDxkm1t3nS1D0&s=FFCUiGsakbAYTolDM5UiMxZBkB4wC55n8jDUnUzd3Uk&e=>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

_______________________________________________
GNSO-RPM-WG mailing list
GNSO-RPM-WG at icann.org<mailto:GNSO-RPM-WG at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drpm-2Dwg&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=zNkRTU6mF0Z0D3-x2yYFYqRN-laL_rrDxkm1t3nS1D0&s=sIWgLf6tJOr4bVrRl2Kq-iflUaAJ5xM7solSCPqTSEM&e=>
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_policy&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=zNkRTU6mF0Z0D3-x2yYFYqRN-laL_rrDxkm1t3nS1D0&s=ACGGg3oDhOg63w3gCmDwRhR4IOgKM68xVpS38jPW6Ek&e=>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_tos&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=zNkRTU6mF0Z0D3-x2yYFYqRN-laL_rrDxkm1t3nS1D0&s=FFCUiGsakbAYTolDM5UiMxZBkB4wC55n8jDUnUzd3Uk&e=>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20191002/851e509b/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 6875 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20191002/851e509b/image001-0001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 19627 bytes
Desc: image002.png
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20191002/851e509b/image002-0001.png>