[GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs

Fri Jun 25 18:49:05 UTC 2021

I do not believe 'we' have agreed that DNS transfer is outside the scope of
anything, though I have read the registrar representatives' opinion to that
effect.  It seems worth some further discussion because, from a user
perspective in typical situations (even if they are not aware of this...),
DNS transfer is an extremely critical component of domain name transfer.
At a minimum, it seems worthy of community input as to future work, if
indeed we do agree it is not in present scope.  Of course, we also could
agree to seek a charter amendment to change the scope, if indeed that is
necessary.

We should talk about this some more, and hear more from people outside the
CPH about it.

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Mike Rodenbaugh

address:

548 Market Street, Box 55819

San Francisco, CA 94104

email:

mike at rodenbaugh.com

phone:

+1 (415) 738-8087

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 5:35 AM James Galvin <jgalvin at donuts.email> wrote:

> I know the deadline was yesterday and I apologize for this final comment
> on this thread at this late time, but I do want to offer a suggestion for
> consideration to include, i.e., refocus Steve’s suggested addition to
> something different.
>
> We agreed that DNS transfer service is not part of the charter. However,
> we also agreed that DNSSEC service transfer is important, even though we
> wouldn’t solve it here.
>
> In coming to this conclusion, I believe we are making a point of
> clarification that it is worth asking for additional input from the
> community. It is important our work product make this clarification and we
> should give the community the opportunity to respond to this, particularly
> because we should also indicate as part of our work product that insofar as
> this work is important, there should be future work to consider how to
> address it.
>
> Specifically, we are saying that the secure and stable inter-registrar
> transfer of a domain name should be concerned with two things: the contents
> of contact objects and the name servers associated with a domain name.
> These are both critical elements with which the registration system
> supports the Internet. We are further declaring that this PDP will only
> address the transfer of the contents of contact objects. Issues associated
> with the transfer of name servers, particularly the effect on DNSSEC (which
> is a security service), will be identified and relegated to future work.
>
> We should ask specifically if the community has a comment regarding this
> definitional clarification.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On 24 Jun 2021, at 11:55, Owen Smigelski via GNSO-TPR wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Provision of DNS service is outside of the RAA and policies. There are
> mentions of nameservers, but only to the extent that registrars must
> provide that data to registries,  escrow it, and provide the info in RDDS.
> Also, it is specified that the process to obtain an AuthInfo Code be no
> more restrictive than changing nameservers- but these are basically the
> only references. DNSSEC must also be provided upon request, but there are
> no significant details regarding how to comply (and it’s my recollection
> that there have only been a handful of complaints since these obligations
> came into effect with the adoption of the 2013 RAA).
>
> I agree that DNS service is well outside of the scope of the Transfer
> Policy (as well as other ICANN contractual obligations). We already have a
> robust agenda based upon the issues report and other scoping documents that
> were the results of significant efforts by the ICANN org and community. At
> this point I think it is too late to expand the scope and consider issues
> (while important) are outside of our remit. I also note that these issues
> are only being raised now, and were not raised during the previous 2-3 year
> process of starting this PDP.
>
> Regards,
>
> Owen
>
> On Jun 24, 2021, at 08:40, DiBiase, Gregory via GNSO-TPR <
> gnso-tpr at icann.org> wrote:
>
> I have to agree with Volker here.  If registrars are not required to
> provide DNS service for a particular domain that they manage (to my
> knowledge provision of this service is not mandated anywhere in ICANN
> policy or bylaws), I think DNS service falls outside the scope of the
> Transfer Policy.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>
> *From:* Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2021 2:42 AM
> *To:* Steve Crocker <steve at shinkuro.com>
> *Cc:* DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase at amazon.com>; gnso-tpr at icann.org
> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for
> feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from
> SO/AC/SG/Cs
>
>
> *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
> I still think this is out of scope for domain transfers as it is an
> ancillary optional service that becomes imp[ortant on the occasion of the
> transfer, but is not relevant for the function of the transfer itself and
> falls outside our remit.
>
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
> *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
>
> T: +49 6894 9396901
> M: +49 6894 9396851
> F: +49 6894 9396851
> W: www.key-systems.net
>
> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
>
> Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> England and Wales with company number 8576358.
>
> This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only
> for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of
> dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
> error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this
> email with any files that may be attached.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:19 AM Steve Crocker <steve at shinkuro.com> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> Thanks for your email.  I'm suggesting that registrars who provide DNS
> service should cooperate in transition and multi-operation of DNS service.
> While it is true that only some registrants use their registrar's DNS
> service, it is also true that almost all registrars offer DNS service to
> their registrants.  Moreover, they usually do so free of charge.
>
> I try not to lump DNS service with other services.  The other services,
> e.g. hosting and mail depend on DNS, but DNS service is not dependent on
> any of those.  In this sense DNS is part of the infrastructure and not the
> same as applications.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:09 PM DiBiase, Gregory <dibiase at amazon.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> DNS service will not always be provided by the gaining or losing
> registrar.  Are you suggesting conditional rules (e.g., *if* the
> registrar of record is providing DNS service, then xyz…) may be warranted?
> In other words, there could be additional obligations for registrars
> depending on what ancillary services they offer a particular customer?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>
> *From:* GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces at icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Steve Crocker
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:03 PM
> *To:* Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> *Cc:* gnso-tpr at icann.org
> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-TPR] Final Reminder - Deadline for
> feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document requesting early input from
> SO/AC/SG/Cs
>
>
> *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
> Volker,
>
> I'm certainly not suggesting ICANN *regulate* hosting and mail services.
> Hosting and mail services are almost always sold as separate services.  DNS
> is usually provided for free.  Further, DNS is a supporting service, not a
> user service.
>
> But the implied sense of your question is that we're talking about ICANN
> *regulating* DNS service.  I think that's too narrow of an interpretation.
> ICANN's interest, and, indeed what everyone's interest should be, is for
> users to receive reliable and safe service.  DNS service falls into a bit
> of a gray area because it's often supplied by the registrar at no
> additional cost and hence intimately entangled in the registration
> service.  This is helpful to the registrants, so that's good.  But it also
> means it comes into play during a transfer.
>
> The basic proposition, which I think everyone here is working towards, is
> that registrars should work cooperatively to provide a smooth transition
> during transfers.  In those cases where the registrar is providing DNS
> service, this means working cooperatively to provide smooth transition of
> the DNS service during transfers.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:43 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> with regard to registrar services, DNS services are ancillary services at
> best and mostly fall outside of the ICANN mandate. Many registrants do not
> use the free DNS services provided by many registrars but third party
> services. Yes, it is true that many registrants do use the services of
> their registrar, and that sloppy planning of a migration can lead to
> outages, but that is not a service that ICANN regulates, or should regulate.
> The same issues apply when the losing registrar provides hosting or mail
> services after all. If not done well, there will be outages.
>
> Are you suggesting ICANN should regulate hosting and mail services as well?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
> *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
>
> T: +49 6894 9396901
> M: +49 6894 9396851
> F: +49 6894 9396851
> W: www.key-systems.net
>
> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
>
> Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> England and Wales with company number 8576358.
>
> This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only
> for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of
> dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
> error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this
> email with any files that may be attached.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:54 PM Steve Crocker <steve at shinkuro.com> wrote:
>
> Volker,
>
> If the registrar is also supplying the DNS service and the registrant
> initiates a change of registrar, the existing registrar will stop providing
> the DNS service.  Therefore, the registrant is forced to change DNS service
> as part of changing registrars.  If the registrant also wishes for the DNS
> service to continue to work during the transition, some careful
> coordination between the two DNS operations is required.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 2:08 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> wrote:
>
> I keep wondering what DNS settings and operations have to do with
> transfers in the first place. Surely the correct DNS settings are the
> responsibility of the registrant?
> Volker
>
> On Wed 23. Jun 2021 at 19:54, Steve Crocker <steve at shinkuro.com> wrote:
>
> Emily, et al,
>
> I have added some words related to coordination of DNS operations during a
> change of registrar.  I was not able to edit the document directly via
> Google docs, so I downloaded the document and inserted changes.  Tracking
> is turned on.  I inserted my suggested changes between "c" and "d" so I
> used the letter x.
>
> I believe this belongs in this phase, 1a, because phase 1b looks like it's
> focused specifically on a change of registrant.  The question of
> coordination of DNS operation could be relevant during a change of
> registrant but will be much more likely to be relevant during a change of
> registrar without a change of registrant.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:08 AM Emily Barabas <emily.barabas at icann.org>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Working Group members,
>
> *Tomorrow, Thursday, 24 June is the last day to suggest edits to the
> outreach letter *to SO/AC/SG/Cs: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing
> [drive.google.com]
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
>
> As a point of clarification, the current task is to make sure that the
> text of the letter is acceptable and determine if any additional questions
> need to be asked of SO/AC/SG/Cs as part of this request for input beyond
> the listed charter questions. Once the WG has finalized the letter, it will
> be sent to SO/AC/SG/Cs who will have approximately five weeks to respond.
> Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
>
>
> *From: *GNSO-TPR <gnso-tpr-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Emily Barabas <
> emily.barabas at icann.org>
> *Date: *Monday, 21 June 2021 at 11:39
> *To: *"gnso-tpr at icann.org" <gnso-tpr at icann.org>
> *Subject: *[GNSO-TPR] Reminder - Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft
> outreach document requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
>
> Dear Working Group members,
>
> As a reminder, if you would like suggest additional questions to include
> in the request for early input to SO/AC/SG/Cs, *please add these
> questions to the Google Doc no later than this* *Thursday, 24 June*:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing
> [drive.google.com]
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
>
>
> *From: *Emily Barabas <emily.barabas at icann.org>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 19:28
> *To: *"gnso-tpr at icann.org" <gnso-tpr at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Deadline for feedback 24 June: Draft outreach document
> requesting early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs
>
> Dear Working Group members,
>
> As discussed on today’s call, the leadership team has prepared a draft
> outreach document to send to SO/AC/SG/Cs requesting early input on the
> topics within the TRP PDP’s charter. You can find the draft here:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing
> [drive.google.com]
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1MsaU6sc3TU3azo2-pCWW9A6GWJ0a7XzT/view?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!vkE-FpvoDc1HIrtWnt7zsQUsfbk7Z5W7iLrcWdwh-7tlz3YJCzSsuurm11H3J8ZGLOgbLWgQHA$>
>
> If you would like to propose edits to the text or would like to suggest
> additional questions for early input to include in the document, please add
> comments directly into the Google Document. If anyone is unable to use
> Google Drive, Word and PDF versions are attached for reference. You can
> also use Google Doc comments to provide feedback on questions or edits that
> have been proposed by other members.
>
> *Please provide your input no later than 24 June 2021*. The Working Group
> call on 29 June will be focused on finalizing this document for submission
> to the SO/AC/SG/Cs.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Emily, Julie, Caitlin, and Berry
>
>
> Emily Barabas
> Policy Manager, GNSO Policy Development Support
> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
> Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976
> www.icann.org
>
>
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> --
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
> *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
>
> T: +49 6894 9396901
> M: +49 6894 9396851
> F: +49 6894 9396851
> W: www.key-systems.net
>
> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
>
> Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> England and Wales with company number 8576358.
>
> This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only
> for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of
> dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
> error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this
> email with any files that may be attached.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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