[NCAP-Discuss] Top-level Domains for Private Internets IETF draft

Mon Jun 15 21:49:56 UTC 2020

I know I said the last e-mail was the last one on this topic, but I just wanted to thank Rod and others for contributing to this and that I have sent the issue to the SubPro PDP Working Group to see if they want to engage on this subject as well.

I look forward to seeing the SSAC paper.

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________________________________
From: Rod Rasmussen <rod at rodrasmussen.com>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 5:43 PM
To: Jeff Neuman
Cc: Warren Kumari; ncap-discuss at icann.org
Subject: Re: [NCAP-Discuss] Top-level Domains for Private Internets IETF draft

Jeff,

I’m replying on this particular topic to provide some more context from the SSAC perspective.  The SSAC is currently working on a paper on private use TLDs.  In the past, we’ve listed this on our “potential work” updates to the community as "comments on .internal” but that has evolved to a more generic name for the paper.  We have progressed this work substantially within the SSAC but do not have a final paper or consensus call yet, hence Warren’s reference to confidentiality.  Hopefully we will be able to finish that work relatively soon and provide some more food for thought to this topic space.  It certainly is an intriguing area to explore and intersects different policy arenas and interests.

Cheers,

Rod

On Jun 15, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>> wrote:

Not sure what to make of this because of the confidentiality concerns you have make it difficult to understand the context of the comment.  I think something we are trying to achieve, and I would hope that this gets support within the SSAC, is to increase the dialogue that takes place between the ICANN community and the IETF on what should be classified as a Special Use domain.  I think most of us within the community would be extremely reasonable and would agree that something like a .internal (or even in this case a two character string) would be a good idea.  But what about in the future if someone in the IETF want to create a special use domain for IOT or what about a string that corresponds with a brand?

The only thing I am objecting to, to the extent I am even objecting, is that there seems to be some resistance to multi-organizational collaboration.  I find this a little ironic that the IETF has a liaison to the ICANN Board, but I am not aware of an ICANN Liaison to the IESG or the IAB.  There may be one, I have just never heard it discussed.

Anyway, I think the main point is to encourage cross organizational discussions.

Jeff Neuman
Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus
D: +1.703.635.7514
E: jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Kumari <warren at kumari.net<mailto:warren at kumari.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:34 PM
To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>>
Cc: David Conrad <david.conrad at icann.org<mailto:david.conrad at icann.org>>; ncap-discuss at icann.org<mailto:ncap-discuss at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [NCAP-Discuss] Top-level Domains for Private Internets IETF draft

I would like to point at an email I sent to the IETF DNSOP list on Mon, 18 May 2020:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/7AzjYP3XoLaPYKPjPzQzEn6k7L4/

I would note that this proposal has different properties, but as mentioned in the above, confidentiality prevents me saying more at this point.

W

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 11:05 AM Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>> wrote:

And at the end of the day, I want to note that I don’t oppose this type of proposal.  I am just perplexed why the appropriate venue is considered the IETF as opposed to ICANN.

Jeff Neuman

Senior Vice President

Com Laude | Valideus

D: +1.703.635.7514

E: jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>

From: NCAP-Discuss <ncap-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ncap-discuss-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Jeff
Neuman
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 11:03 AM
To: David Conrad <david.conrad at icann.org<mailto:david.conrad at icann.org>>
Cc: ncap-discuss at icann.org<mailto:ncap-discuss at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [NCAP-Discuss] Top-level Domains for Private Internets
IETF draft

ICANN, as far as I can tell, does not have a consensus policy that states that once ISO-3166 codes are created anyone can use it for any purpose.  If there is such a policy, I would love to see it.  ISO assigns to character codes, yes.  But ISO does not assign 2 character domains?  That is within ICANN’s purview.  Yes, we through the ICANN processes have acknowledged the right of ccTLDs to use their assigned codes as ccTLDs, but to my knowledge, ICANN has never discussed the ability to use other ISO code lists for other purposes.

Why should anyone be averse to having this discussion within the ICANN community and why did Roy and Ed decide that the right venue to discuss this issue was the IETF.  To me this is policy issue and not a technical issue?

Jeff Neuman

Senior Vice President

Com Laude | Valideus

D: +1.703.635.7514

E: jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>

From: David Conrad <david.conrad at icann.org<mailto:david.conrad at icann.org>>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 10:55 AM
To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>>
Cc: Roy Arends <roy.arends at icann.org<mailto:roy.arends at icann.org>>; ncap-discuss at icann.org<mailto:ncap-discuss at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [NCAP-Discuss] Top-level Domains for Private Internets
IETF draft

Jeff,

On Jun 15, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>> wrote:

Regardless of who is the intended beneficiary of the private name spaces, at the end of the day this will cause the ICANN world to "reserve" these labels from being delegated in the authoritative root.  So, I see this no differently than I see a brand TLD for example.  Brand TLDs do not have a standard registration model and in fact some of the brand TLDs may be using their TLDs for their own private intranets.

AFAIK, 2-letter codes have been reserved since (before) RFC 1591 as assigned by ISO-3166/MA, not ICANN.  Once ISO-3166/MA assigns the 2-letter code, it can (but does not have to be) delegated in the DNS. Since ISO-3166/MA has indicated certain codes will be user defined, they can’t be assigned. Roy/Ed’s draft is suggesting the fact that ISO-3166/MA has indicated a set of 2-letter codes be "user defined" be taken as that those domains are safe for use in a user defined (i.e., private) context.

This seems very different to me than brand domains, which are assigned by ICANN.

Regards,

-drc

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