[RSSAC Caucus] [Ext] Re: RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan

Harish Chowdhary intern3tgovernance at gmail.com
Wed May 3 15:07:54 UTC 2023 

Thanks a lot,
Harish Chowdhary

On Wed, 26 Apr, 2023, 21:31 Alejandro Acosta, <alejandro at lacnic.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>   For all interested, there is an on-going talk/thread about RFC 3797bis
> in the general IETF mailing list.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Alejandro,
>
>
> On 14/1/23 1:11 AM, Harish Chowdhary wrote:
>
> Dear Andrew,
>
> As I went through RFC 3797 several times, I understood the following.
> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>
> There are a few potential disadvantages of using a Publicly Verifiable
> Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection process, such as the one
> outlined in RFC 3797. Some of these include:
>
> Complexity: The process outlined in the RFC is quite complex and may be
> difficult for some people to understand or implement.
>
> Time-consuming: The process of selecting nominees through random selection
> can be time-consuming, especially if there are a large number of potential
> nominees.
>
> *Limited pool of nominees: The random selection process may not yield a
> diverse group of nominees, as it is based on chance rather than a
> deliberate effort to seek out candidates from underrepresented groups.*
> That is what I had highlighted.
>
>
> Lack of accountability: Because the selection process is random, there is
> no way to hold individuals or groups accountable for the nominees that are
> chosen.
>
> Limited transparency: It can be difficult for members of the community to
> understand or verify the selection process, as it relies on complex
> mathematical algorithms and cryptographic techniques.
>
> Exclusion of certain people: Some individuals may be excluded from the
> selection process if they are not able to provide the necessary information
> or meet the requirements outlined in the RFC, which can be a limitation.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Harish Chowdhary
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Jan, 2023, 9:28 pm Andrew McConachie, <
> andrew.mcconachie at icann.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Harish,
>>
>> RFC 3797 is publicly verifiable. You can run the algorithm yourself with
>> the information provided in Steve’s earlier email and verify the results
>> yourself. If you are interested in past results the archives of this
>> mailing list are available at: <
>> https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/rssac-caucus/>
>>
>> RFC 3797 is string agnostic. Each choice in the lottery is assigned an
>> index and that index is the value the algorithm uses. Thus, these questions
>> you have about how a name’s ordering may impact results are
>> inconsequential.
>>
>> The sources of randomness are identified before the lottery determines
>> the winner. But the random numbers generated by these sources cannot be
>> known at the time each potential choice is assigned an index. Because of
>> this, there is no way anyone can pre-determine an outcome by assigning
>> specific indices to specific persons. Because at the time of index
>> assignment no one can know which indices will be chosen.
>>
>> I hope this information helps and if you have further questions about how
>> RFC 3797 functions, feel free to reach out. I’m certainly not an expert,
>> but I have read it a few times.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andrew
>>
>> On 11 Jan 2023, at 15:12, Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Steve,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your response.
>>
>> *Please provide the following information to help us understand the
>> process and fill any gaps in our knowledge.*
>>
>>    1. Please tell us what the results of the RSSAC CAUCUS IETF travel
>>    support have been since the program's inception, as well as why these rules
>>    were created, so we can determine whether this is a new process or a
>>    replacement for an old one.
>>    2. Also, please provide the results for the following combinations so
>>    that we can see how the algorithm works when it selects the person with the
>>    one name from the following options:
>>
>>
>>    - FirstName LastName (Harish Chowdhary)
>>    - LastName FirstName (Chowdhary Harish)
>>    - Only the first name is used. (Harish)
>>
>>
>> Multiple places state that guidelines are only for reference and are not
>> binding. Here due to the limited pool of applicants who are applying; in
>> most cases, the result would be the same/similar.
>> *Non availability of the requested data would conclude the results are
>> not valid.*
>>
>> I remember a very important discussion was started at IETF 100 in order
>> to incorporate human perspectives into standards and protocols such as the
>> RFC discussed here; it may not have any issues, but the implementation may
>> have relied on similar inputs from a very small input domain.
>>
>> Most importantly, because only a small number of experts are
>> participating, the lottery system should not preclude active participation.
>> *The goal is to treat everyone as a person, not just a number in a
>> lottery.*
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harish Chowdhary
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:39 PM Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Harish,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Thanks for your email. I see two questions and let me respond to them
>>> separately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   *Regarding your concern that the random selection always select the
>>> alpha A first,*  I have double-checked the result using two
>>> implementations of RFC 3797 and both yields the same responses. I have also
>>> checked and confirmed that the randomness we use follows the guidelines
>>> laid out in section 3 of RFC3797. Based on these, I concluded that we have
>>> followed RFC 3797. I have also checked with other communities that use
>>> RFC3797 and did not find evidence that it always selects the alpha A first.
>>> Based on these, and unless proven otherwise, I conclude the selection is
>>> valid.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *  Regarding your question “**I hope travel support should be even and
>>> given to member who never received it and based upon some rationale rather
>>> than a lottery,”* this selection has been done as outlined in the IETF
>>> Supported Travelers Funding Guidelines attached. The guidelines do not
>>> preclude an RSSAC Caucus member from being considered for travel support
>>> even if they received travel support in the past.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance at gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:33 PM
>>> *To: *Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org>
>>> *Cc: *Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>, RSSAC Caucus <
>>> rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>>> *Subject: *[Ext] Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for
>>> IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please see results of IETF 104.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Results
>>>
>>> Key String: 15.21.29.35.54.60./6.7.10.11.19.27.37./6739./
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. Daniel Migault
>>>
>>> 6. Anand Raje
>>>
>>> 11. Amir Qayyum
>>>
>>> 10. Alejandro Acosta
>>>
>>> 1. Robert Story
>>>
>>> 5. Ihtisham Khalid
>>>
>>> 9. Dr AbdulkarIm Oloyede
>>>
>>> 2. Ramanou BIAOU
>>>
>>> 12. MOHIT BATRA
>>>
>>> 3. George Russell Mundy
>>>
>>> 14. Anupam Agrawal
>>>
>>> 8. Shailesh Gupta
>>>
>>> 13. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>>
>>> 7. Harish Chowdhary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   The funded travelers are:  Daniel Migault, Anand Raje, Amir Qayyum
>>>  and Alejandro Acosta
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any suggestions please.
>>>
>>> I hope travel support should be even and given to memeber who never
>>> recieved it and based upon some rationale rather than a lottery.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Harish Chowdhary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 4 Jan, 2023, 9:32 pm Steve Sheng, <steve.sheng at icann.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear RSSAC Caucus,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please see the result of the random selection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Source of Randomness:
>>>     #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023: 3 10 20 21 29 45 46
>>>     (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions [euro-jackpot.net]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46eJkTjdSc$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>
>>>     #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023: 1 14 24 34 45 47
>>> (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/ [luckyforlife.us]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e0J7GmJw$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>
>>>     #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer) on Tuesday
>>> 3 January 2023: 10387
>>>     (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp [nasdaq.com]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e5NdXnA8$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Result:
>>>
>>> 5. Anand Raje
>>>
>>> 1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>>
>>> 3. Hafiz Farooq
>>>
>>> 2. Harish Chowdhary
>>>
>>> 4. Mallory Knodel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thus, Anand Raje and Rao Naveed Bin Rais will receive funding of IETF
>>> 116.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org>
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:49 AM
>>> *To: *Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>, "rssac-caucus at icann.org" <
>>> rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116
>>> Yokohama, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear RSSAC Caucus,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Sorry for the delay in handling this random selection. Here is a list
>>> of RSSAC Caucus members to be entered into the random selection:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>>    2. Harish Chowdhary
>>>    3. Hafiz Farooq
>>>    4. Mallory Knodel
>>>    5. Anand Raje
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Number of Slots: 2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Source of Randomness:
>>>     #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023
>>>     (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions [euro-jackpot.net]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46eJkTjdSc$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>     #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023
>>> (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/ [luckyforlife.us]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e0J7GmJw$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>     #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer) on Tuesday
>>> 3 January 2023
>>>     (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp [nasdaq.com]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e5NdXnA8$>
>>> )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be conducted by
>>> Staff on Wed 4 January 2023, using the RFC 3797 method. The results (as
>>> well as other data) will be announced to the list on the same day, after
>>> which you can verify the result yourself.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Steve Sheng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ozan
>>> Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>
>>> *Date: *Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 3:37 PM
>>> *To: *"rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116
>>> Yokohama, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear RSSAC Caucus Members,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have received the following requests for travel support to IETF 116.
>>>
>>>    1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>>    2. Harish Chowdhary
>>>    3. Hafiz Farooq
>>>    4. Mallory Knodel
>>>    5. Abdulkarim Oloyede
>>>    6. Anand Raje
>>>    7. Dessalegn Yehuala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to the RSSAC Caucus IETF Supported Travelers Funding
>>> Guidelines, RSSAC Admin Committee is allocating two trip slots to the
>>> following RSSAC Caucus members:
>>>
>>>    - Abdulkarim Oloyede
>>>    - Dessalegn Yehuala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For the remaining two slots, we will do a verifiable random selection as
>>> specified by RFC 3797.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be conducted by
>>> Staff on Thursday 22 December 2022,  using the RFC 3797 method. The results
>>> (as well as other data) will be announced to the list on the same day,
>>> after which you can verify the result yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ozan Sahin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ozan
>>> Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>
>>> *Date: *23 November 2022 Wednesday 17:12
>>> *To: *"rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>>> *Subject: *[RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116
>>> Yokohama, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear RSSAC Caucus members,
>>>
>>> RSSAC Admin Committee understands that ICANN organization may be sharing
>>> new sponsered travel information and guidancefor ICANN community to attend
>>> non-ICANN events in the next weeks. As a result, travel support to attend
>>> even-numbered IETF meetings may be available once again. In order to not
>>> miss the relevant notice periods, RSSAC Admin Committee would like to start
>>> the selection process to identify sponsered RSSAC Caucus members to attend
>>> the next IETF meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>> IETF 116 will take place in Yokohama, Japan from 25 - 31 March 2023. Pending
>>> the travel advice from ICANN organization, there may be travel support
>>> for up to four (4) RSSAC Caucus Members to attend IETF 116 including
>>> economy class airfare, accommodation, registration, and per diem.
>>>
>>> As you may remember, RSSAC approved guidelines for RSSAC Caucus members
>>> requesting travel support to attend even-numbered IETF meetings in 2019.
>>> Please see the approved guidelines attached. Depending on how many requests
>>> we receive, the RSSAC Administrative Committee may need to make the
>>> selection based on the selection criteria outlined in the guidelines.
>>>
>>> If you would like to apply and be considered for travel support, please
>>> complete the following form by *Friday, **2 December 2022*: https://forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9
>>> [forms.gle]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9__;!!PtGJab4!9m5qumXaTDkZtDfXDPP-zysIU68gEAg4fuv297qYkNvBGJLC1gDTvKZwpGg4qH_zumtMvOv4m378Srp6FTjbjSqi10w$>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ozan Sahin
>>>
>>> Policy Development Support Senior Specialist
>>>
>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mobile:             +90 533 641 0007
>>>
>>> Skype:              ozan.sahin.icann
>>>
>>> www.icann.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rssac-caucus mailing list
>>> rssac-caucus at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rssac-caucus
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> *Thanks, Harish Chowdhary, Technology Analyst*
>>  www.indiaig.in [indiaig.in]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.indiaig.in__;!!PtGJab4!-PuXK2kWCsgVSxGqaET2yan33hhb65BBPADsvDrrsNQUdKvS5DaAOHk2GvmmsfFzcaxWokMeMYG0Iz2EUv71uOUeY4nXVqvJ44f7l9U$>
>>
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