[Rt4-whois] WHOIS Policy RT - Law Enforcement comments.

Wed Nov 30 14:11:07 UTC 2011

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Kathy,

I got this!.  The only reason I changed the definition was at Peter and Emily's request as they thought the one in the document was a bit 'police state' like (my words, not theirs!).  I tend to agree.

I am extremely relaxed about the definition and if it has moved on since my last effort, then I am happy to go with the latest version.

Sharon

Sharon LEMON OBE
Deputy Director
Cyber and Forensics
Serious and Organised Crime Agency (SOCA)
07768 290902
0207 855 2800

-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Kleiman [mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com]
Sent: 30 November 2011 14:02
To: rt4-whois at icann.org; LEMON, Sharon
Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] WHOIS Policy RT - Law Enforcement comments.

Dear Sharon,
Tx you so much for trying to find your way through the morass.  I wanted to share that I am looking forward to reading the comments of LE, but mark my great concern about the newly-expanded LE defintion. I would value the opportunity to talk with you further, but expanding LE to all private parties is a real issue -- and one I thought we had resolved with the three tiers of users:
    -    LE users (as defined previously, with clear state authority)
    -     Expert Users (particularly the private fraud detectors and malware investigators)
    -     Other users, including Internet users.

As much as I respect the Anti-Phishing Working Group, they don't have the bounds, limits, process and protections of SOCA or the FBI. They are a private entity operating with private processes.  And that's different.

If we stick with the original definition, with an emphasis on access, education, etc. to those private entities using Whois to enforce their interpretation of the law -- would we be OK?

[Note: with the note, as you all know, that I have spent 15 years in this arena watching private parties overstretch and abuse their authority, or lack thereof. We have to take the abuse cases into account. LE cares about due process and the limits of the law; many private parties do not. ]

Best, Kathy
ps could someone please forward to Sharon since my email to her bounces. Tx!

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Dear Emily, Alice and All,

Sorry for arriving at the party late, I have been watching in awe the hundreds of emails flying about.  We gave until today for our international colleagues to comment and we have just had our own internal meeting to finalise the comments on the paper.

The paper complemented our ongoing law enforcement work within the ICANN community and there are not comments of major significance -ours are in green.  I know that Alice is currently going through the nightmare of trying to organise the version control. (Good Luck and thanks Alice).
I have replaced the definition of law enforcement with:

Any entity with a responsibility to enforce or ensure observance to or obedience of the law, whether mandated by government or otherwise.

We could go on forever with this - but let me know if there are any show stopping objections.

I hope we make the deadline of 5pm ;-)

Sharon

Sharon LEMON OBE
Deputy Director
Cyber and Forensics
Serious and Organised Crime Agency (SOCA)
07768 290902
0207 855 2800

-----Original Message-----
From: KIBBEY, Gary
Sent: 30 November 2011 13:16
To: LEMON, Sharon
Subject: FW: Emailing: WHOIS Policy RT - Draft report - 24 Nov - Clean CC GK Comments

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Gary Kibbey/ Senior Manager
Cyber
Serious Organised Crime Agency / Tel +44(0)207 855 2863 +44(0)7876790990
gary.kibbey at soca.x.gsi.gov.uk<mailto:gary.kibbey at soca.x.gsi.gov.uk>

-----Original Message-----
From: FLAHERTY, Jonathan
Sent: 29 November 2011 17:54
To: KIBBEY, Gary; ADDIS, Benedict
Cc: CURLEY, Cliona
Subject: RE: Emailing: WHOIS Policy RT - Draft report - 24 Nov - Clean CC GK Comments

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My comments added.

Jon Flaherty | HVOM | SOCA Cyber & Forensics | 0207 855 2808 | 07919 218439 | jonathan.flaherty at soca.x.gsi.gov.uk<mailto:jonathan.flaherty at soca.x.gsi.gov.uk>

-----Original Message-----
From: KIBBEY, Gary
Sent: 29 November 2011 14:34
To: FLAHERTY, Jonathan; ADDIS, Benedict
Cc: CURLEY, Cliona
Subject: FW: Emailing: WHOIS Policy RT - Draft report - 24 Nov - Clean CC GK Comments

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Gents

If you have any comments -can you drop onto this working copy. Don't track changes - just comments.

Ta

Gary

Gary Kibbey/ Senior Manager
Cyber
Serious Organised Crime Agency / Tel +44(0)207 855 2863 +44(0)7876790990
gary.kibbey at soca.x.gsi.gov.uk<mailto:gary.kibbey at soca.x.gsi.gov.uk>

-----Original Message-----
From: KIBBEY, Gary
Sent: 29 November 2011 14:31
To: KIBBEY, Gary
Subject: Emailing: WHOIS Policy RT - Draft report - 24 Nov - Clean CC GK Comments

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WHOIS Policy RT - Draft report - 24 Nov - Clean CC GK Comments

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