[Rt4-whois] Questions on Recommendation 17

Tue Feb 7 02:17:10 UTC 2012

Wasn't quite done with that message.

The AoC seems quite clear that there is a requirement on ICANN to "implement measures", any measures that satisfy the requirement.

On Feb 6, 2012, at 6:11 PM, "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith at paypal-inc.com> wrote:

> I'm with Seth. The AoC seems clear
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 6, 2012, at 11:13 AM, "Seth M Reiss" <seth.reiss at lex-ip.com> wrote:
> 
>> Let's let the AoC speaks for itself.
>> 
>> "ICANN additionally commits to enforcing its existing policy relating to
>> WHOIS, subject to applicable laws. Such existing policy requires that ICANN
>> implement measures to maintain timely, unrestricted and public access to
>> accurate and complete WHOIS information, including registrant, technical,
>> billing, and administrative contact information."
>> 
>> Doesn't say that ICANN should play the operation role and it doesn't say
>> that ICANN should not. ICANN is required to implement measures to effect an
>> adequate result.  I do recall discussing a portal, not sure if that was in
>> terms of ICANN operating the portal or ICANN contracting a third party to,
>> or maybe discussing both.
>> 
>> Seth 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rt4-whois-bounces at icann.org [mailto:rt4-whois-bounces at icann.org] On
>> Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman
>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:20 AM
>> To: Lutz Donnerhacke
>> Cc: rt4-whois at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Questions on Recommendation 17
>> 
>> Hi Lutz,
>> Thank you for the detailed answers below. I am still working through 
>> them and urge others to review them closely as well.  I would very much 
>> like to see the "all-whois" website you have been running since 1996 -- 
>> would you be willing to share the link?
>> 
>> There does seem to be a difference in how we view the AoC. I never saw 
>> as **requiring ** ICANN to have an operational role in running websites, 
>> and I don't remember such discussions in our meetings (did I sleep 
>> through something?) I do remember discussing that ICANN -- with Whois 
>> data as with so many other areas -- is responsible fo creating and 
>> overseeing policies that implement the wording and goals of the AoC.
>> 
>> I tend to have a sense that policy-making bodies are not great 
>> operational bodies, and know there has been great push-back against 
>> ICANN in other areas (e.g. the DNS-Cert discussion of 2010).
>> 
>> I will send back more detailed comments shortly.  Thank you for this 
>> discussion online and, hopefully, in CR as well. And thanks for the link 
>> to your website!
>> Best,
>> Kathy
>> 
>> :
>>> On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 01:59:05PM -0500, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>>>> I understand it, we are recommending a "dedicated, multilingual website"
>> to
>>>> provide thick Whois data (for thin gTLD registries, in one variation, and
>>>> all gTLD registries in the other):
>>> 
>>> No, we are recommending a "dedicated, multilingual website" to provide a
>>> "centralized access to all whois data regardless of the underlying data
>>> structure".
>>> 
>>>> 1. What is the underlying data structure of this website? Is all the
>>>> information going to be gathered into and run out of a California
>> database
>>>> run and owned by ICANN?
>>> No. The website traveresed the data structure down the chain of whois
>>> servers (starting at whois.iana.org). It does not store nor copy the whois
>>> data, besides some short time caching.
>>> 
>>> It's similar to DNS: A recursive resolver does not copy and stores all the
>>> DNS records worldwide, but is able to obtain the necessary data on the
>> fly.
>>> 
>>>> 2. Alternatively, might it be a website run by ICANN offering links to
>> the
>>>> registries and registrars who hold the full Whois data?
>>> No. The results should be present directly on this particular website in
>>> order to fulfill the requirements of the AoC literaly:
>>> 
>>>  maintain timely, unrestricted and public access to accurate and
>> complete
>>>  WHOIS information, including registrant, technical, billing, and
>>>  administrative contact information.
>>> 
>>> In order to overcome the problems, shown by user experiance report, the
>>> website needs to be multilingual not only in terms of the user interface
>> but
>>> also in the presentation of the gathered data.
>>> 
>>> Of course, the website needs to show the sources and the way how the
>>> information was obtained, where it is really stored and why. That's the
>>> minimal requirement from (my) understanding of (European) data protection
>>> laws.
>>> 
>>>> 3. Do you think this would become the place in which all people search
>> for
>>>> all gTLD whois data?
>>> Yes, that's the intention of the proposal.
>>> 
>>>> If so, could there be a scalability problem if all
>>>> people (law enforcement, domain name purchasers, etc) go to one website
>> for
>>>> all Whois searches? Is there some liability to ICANN should such a site
>> go
>>>> down?
>>> Yes, that's the reasoning behind the proposal: The AoC urges ICANN to
>>> provide such an unrestricted access. Unfortunly many registries does rate
>>> limit the access or does not provide all the required data.
>>> 
>>> ICANN - as the operator of the proposed website - has the power to enforce
>>> it's own policies by using it's own contracts with the parties in
>> question.
>>> 
>>> This way the proposal collapses the differences between real world and AoC
>>> at a single point within the organisation which is able to solve the
>> problem.
>>> 
>>>> 4. Are we advocating a particular policy/technical solution or is the
>>>> implementation open to discussion in the GNSO and other policy groups
>>>> within ICANN?
>>> We - as a group - are limited to the such a proposal and might add some
>>> personal reasoning (like this).
>>> 
>>> Personally I do run such an "all-whois" website since 1996 and do have
>> some
>>> ideas how it should be implemented and which operational policy should be
>>> enforced. But that's outside of our scope.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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