[Rt4-whois] Questions on Recommendation 17

Wed Feb 8 18:01:42 UTC 2012

Agreed!:
> Wasn't quite done with that message.
>
> The AoC seems quite clear that there is a requirement on ICANN to "implement measures", any measures that satisfy the requirement.
>
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2012, at 6:11 PM, "Smith, Bill"<bill.smith at paypal-inc.com>  wrote:
>
>> I'm with Seth. The AoC seems clear
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2012, at 11:13 AM, "Seth M Reiss"<seth.reiss at lex-ip.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Let's let the AoC speaks for itself.
>>>
>>> "ICANN additionally commits to enforcing its existing policy relating to
>>> WHOIS, subject to applicable laws. Such existing policy requires that ICANN
>>> implement measures to maintain timely, unrestricted and public access to
>>> accurate and complete WHOIS information, including registrant, technical,
>>> billing, and administrative contact information."
>>>
>>> Doesn't say that ICANN should play the operation role and it doesn't say
>>> that ICANN should not. ICANN is required to implement measures to effect an
>>> adequate result.  I do recall discussing a portal, not sure if that was in
>>> terms of ICANN operating the portal or ICANN contracting a third party to,
>>> or maybe discussing both.
>>>
>>> Seth
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rt4-whois-bounces at icann.org [mailto:rt4-whois-bounces at icann.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman
>>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:20 AM
>>> To: Lutz Donnerhacke
>>> Cc: rt4-whois at icann.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Questions on Recommendation 17
>>>
>>> Hi Lutz,
>>> Thank you for the detailed answers below. I am still working through
>>> them and urge others to review them closely as well.  I would very much
>>> like to see the "all-whois" website you have been running since 1996 --
>>> would you be willing to share the link?
>>>
>>> There does seem to be a difference in how we view the AoC. I never saw
>>> as **requiring ** ICANN to have an operational role in running websites,
>>> and I don't remember such discussions in our meetings (did I sleep
>>> through something?) I do remember discussing that ICANN -- with Whois
>>> data as with so many other areas -- is responsible fo creating and
>>> overseeing policies that implement the wording and goals of the AoC.
>>>
>>> I tend to have a sense that policy-making bodies are not great
>>> operational bodies, and know there has been great push-back against
>>> ICANN in other areas (e.g. the DNS-Cert discussion of 2010).
>>>
>>> I will send back more detailed comments shortly.  Thank you for this
>>> discussion online and, hopefully, in CR as well. And thanks for the link
>>> to your website!
>>> Best,
>>> Kathy
>>>
>>> :
>>>> On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 01:59:05PM -0500, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>>>>> I understand it, we are recommending a "dedicated, multilingual website"
>>> to
>>>>> provide thick Whois data (for thin gTLD registries, in one variation, and
>>>>> all gTLD registries in the other):
>>>> No, we are recommending a "dedicated, multilingual website" to provide a
>>>> "centralized access to all whois data regardless of the underlying data
>>>> structure".
>>>>
>>>>> 1. What is the underlying data structure of this website? Is all the
>>>>> information going to be gathered into and run out of a California
>>> database
>>>>> run and owned by ICANN?
>>>> No. The website traveresed the data structure down the chain of whois
>>>> servers (starting at whois.iana.org). It does not store nor copy the whois
>>>> data, besides some short time caching.
>>>>
>>>> It's similar to DNS: A recursive resolver does not copy and stores all the
>>>> DNS records worldwide, but is able to obtain the necessary data on the
>>> fly.
>>>>> 2. Alternatively, might it be a website run by ICANN offering links to
>>> the
>>>>> registries and registrars who hold the full Whois data?
>>>> No. The results should be present directly on this particular website in
>>>> order to fulfill the requirements of the AoC literaly:
>>>>
>>>>   maintain timely, unrestricted and public access to accurate and
>>> complete
>>>>   WHOIS information, including registrant, technical, billing, and
>>>>   administrative contact information.
>>>>
>>>> In order to overcome the problems, shown by user experiance report, the
>>>> website needs to be multilingual not only in terms of the user interface
>>> but
>>>> also in the presentation of the gathered data.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, the website needs to show the sources and the way how the
>>>> information was obtained, where it is really stored and why. That's the
>>>> minimal requirement from (my) understanding of (European) data protection
>>>> laws.
>>>>
>>>>> 3. Do you think this would become the place in which all people search
>>> for
>>>>> all gTLD whois data?
>>>> Yes, that's the intention of the proposal.
>>>>
>>>>> If so, could there be a scalability problem if all
>>>>> people (law enforcement, domain name purchasers, etc) go to one website
>>> for
>>>>> all Whois searches? Is there some liability to ICANN should such a site
>>> go
>>>>> down?
>>>> Yes, that's the reasoning behind the proposal: The AoC urges ICANN to
>>>> provide such an unrestricted access. Unfortunly many registries does rate
>>>> limit the access or does not provide all the required data.
>>>>
>>>> ICANN - as the operator of the proposed website - has the power to enforce
>>>> it's own policies by using it's own contracts with the parties in
>>> question.
>>>> This way the proposal collapses the differences between real world and AoC
>>>> at a single point within the organisation which is able to solve the
>>> problem.
>>>>> 4. Are we advocating a particular policy/technical solution or is the
>>>>> implementation open to discussion in the GNSO and other policy groups
>>>>> within ICANN?
>>>> We - as a group - are limited to the such a proposal and might add some
>>>> personal reasoning (like this).
>>>>
>>>> Personally I do run such an "all-whois" website since 1996 and do have
>>> some
>>>> ideas how it should be implemented and which operational policy should be
>>>> enforced. But that's outside of our scope.
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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