[SubPro-IRT] Topic 21.1: Geographic Names - Updated

Fri Oct 13 22:59:21 UTC 2023

Alexander writes:

"How about the following: If the government entity withdraws their letter of support before the application deadline – such letter would be illegible to support the application? We have such provision in the AGB for later stages of the geo gTLD life cycle – just not for the application phase. That would work, too."

This has the same problem as my suggestion. It still requires a second government action. What if the application process required the applicant, at the time of submission, to attest that there have been no material changes that would compromise the letter of support? 

If there were none, we'll and good. If there were changes, the applicant would have compromised their application with a false submission. There could be a grey area here, but when are there not risks of grey areas.

Just a thought.

Sam Lanfranco 

⁣Internet Elder, Internet Ecologist, 416 816-2852

On Oct 13, 2023, 13:27, at 13:27, alexander at schubert.berlin wrote:
>Dear Marc,
>
> 
>
>I agree with you when you say, “having a proviso saying that something
>will be re-signed later is not the same thing as actually getting it
>resigned later”.
>
> 
>
>Albeit I might have expressed myself not clear enough – because I mean
>the opposite:
>
>I am not asking for the proviso to strong-arm the Government entity;
>essentially forcing them into submission. I just want to prevent that
>someone is sending chain letters of non-objection requests to hundreds
>of city majors (something that literally costs zero effort) a year or
>more before the application window opens – and the government has no
>knowledge that the signature that actually “counts” will have to be
>much closer to the actual application submission date. But I am not
>insisting on any proviso – we can leave it away.
>
> 
>
>My best guess is that we will face entities that will apply for city
>gTLDs mainly to enter the ICANN contention set resolution – which is an
>auction. If they win the auction at a low price: great! A city-gTLD for
>a low amount. If they lose: GREAT: free money for zero effort! Some
>longtime local grassroots effort that is managed, financed, and owned
>by local city entities will then be forced to throw away a large swat
>of money just to secure the application – essentially paying ransom to
>the “gTLD speculator”. And said city might not have provided that
>letter of non-objection if they had evaluated the efforts of the local
>applicant group already. Exactly that happened with .africa:
>An early, premature support letter that then later in the game would
>have never been signed – but its mere existence was enough to support
>the application. I agree that “governments” act slowly – but city
>majors do act much faster.
>
> 
>
>How about the following: If the government entity withdraws their
>letter of support before the application deadline – such letter would
>be illegible to support the application? We have such provision in the
>AGB for later stages of the geo gTLD life cycle – just not for the
>application phase. That would work, too. 
>
> 
>
>Thanks,
>
> 
>
>Alexander 
>
>___________________________________
>
>Alexander Schubert
>
>LinkedIn.com/in/alexanderschubert
>
>+1(202)684-6806
>
> 
>
> 
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> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>From: SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of
>trachtenbergm--- via SubPro-IRT
>Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 6:11 PM
>To: samlanfranco at gmail.com; abl at annebeth-lange.no
>Cc: subpro-irt at icann.org
>Subject: Re: [SubPro-IRT] Topic 21.1: Geographic Names - Updated
>
> 
>
>I would just add that as anyone who deals with government knows, having
>a proviso saying that something will be re-signed later is not the same
>thing as actually getting it resigned later.  There are many unrelated
>circumstances the government entity could be dealing with that could
>take precedence over this getting re-signed and I don’t think that the
>applicant should be burdened with having to go through this process
>with government twice.  I don’t think 12 months (or even 18 months)
>before is so long that there is a material risk that the endorsement
>will have changed – at least no more risk than if the endorsement had
>been procured 6 months before.
>
> 
>
>Marc H. Trachtenberg 
>Shareholder
>
>Chair, Internet, Domain Name, e-Commerce and Social Media Practice
>Greenberg Traurig, LLP 
>77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 | Chicago, IL 60601 
>T +1 312.456.1020 
>
>M +1 773.677.3305
><mailto:trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com> trac at gtlaw.com | 
><http://www.gtlaw.com/> www.gtlaw.com  |  
><https://www.gtlaw.com/en/professionals/t/trachtenberg-marc-h> View GT
>Biography 
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>From: Sam Lanfranco <samlanfranco at gmail.com
><mailto:samlanfranco at gmail.com> > 
>Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 9:56 AM
>To: Trachtenberg, Marc H. (Shld-Chi-IP-Tech) <trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com
><mailto:trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com> >; abl at annebeth-lange.no
><mailto:abl at annebeth-lange.no> 
>Cc: subpro-irt at icann.org <mailto:subpro-irt at icann.org> 
>Subject: Re: [SubPro-IRT] Topic 21.1: Geographic Names - Updated
>
> 
>
>Colleagues,
>
>Is there a middle ground here? Not only can it take time to get a
>government to respond, the longer the period between that endorsement
>and the submission date, the greater the possibility that the
>governmental context can change. The process also wants to be protected
>from an early endorsement that is no longer valid. Would the following
>work?
>
>The initial request (and negotiations) for endorsement would contain a
>proviso that the agreement would be re-initialed/signed/verified just
>prior to the submission of the proposal. The applicant would be
>responsible for making sure that the contact person/office and context
>were such that the re-initial/sign/verify process would go smoothly at
>submission, and the evaluation process would be secure in the knowledge
>that the context had not changed, risking making the endorsement
>questionable. Also, there would be no need for a specified time frame. 
>
>Sam Lanfranco, NCSG
>
>On 10/13/2023 9:14 AM, trachtenbergm--- via SubPro-IRT wrote:
>
>I agree as well but think 6 months is too short. It can be difficult to
>get a government entity to do anything and I think signing this letter
>will be low on the priority list. If an applicant is investing
>significant time and money in applying they shouldn’t have to scramble
>at the last minute to get the letter signed (or re-signed) and have
>everything be for naught if the government entity drags its feet. I
>think 12 or 18 months prior is more reasonable. 
>
> 
>
>Best Regards,
>
> 
>
>Marc H.Trachtenberg 
>
>Chair, Internet, Domain Name, eCommerce, and Social Media Practice
>
>Shareholder
>
>Greenberg Traurig, LLP
>
>77 West Wacker Drive
>
>Chicago, IL 60601
>
>Office (312) 456-1020
>
>Mobile (773) 677-3305
>
> 
>
>On Oct 13, 2023, at 6:48 AM, Annebeth Lange via SubPro-IRT 
><mailto:subpro-irt at icann.org> <subpro-irt at icann.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
>*EXTERNAL TO GT*
>
>I agree with Alexander and Justine. It would be a good idea to set a
>time line to avoid problems.
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Best regards 
>
>Annebeth 
>
> 
>
>13. okt. 2023 kl. 12:35 skrev Justine Chew 
><mailto:justine.chew.icann at gmail.com> <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>:
>
> 
>
>Thank you for bringing this up, Alexander. 
>
>I think what you alluded to is very relevant, and in my personal
>capacity, I would urge Lars, Michael K. and their colleagues to
>consider propagating some language on this in the same way they
>proposed to address the issue brought up by Susan regarding what "a
>limited time frame to provide the documentation" under para 2.4 could
>mean (noting also Ruben's remark about Extended Evaluation).
>
>
>
>Kind regards,
>Justine
>
> 
>
> 
>
>On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 at 17:50,  <mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin>
><alexander at schubert.berlin> wrote:
>
>Hi members,
>
> 
>
>I guess few of us have ever dealt with the real-life issues of
>obtaining “government support” for a geo gTLD. I have: both in the last
>round, and right now for the 2nd round. And I urge us to remember one
>of the glaring issues that actually created quite a commotion in the
>1st round:
>
>The total absence of any timeline for such letter. In the last round
>one applicant had government support that was literally ‘years old’ –
>and allegedly even subsequently withdrawn: .africa. Remember what
>hassle that caused?
>
>So, I recommend introducing a simple shelf-life requirement for the
>support letter. It is of course laudable when such support letter has
>been acquired years before the application submission. But even IF an
>applicant acquired such expression of support very early out – would it
>be an unbearable task for them to kindly ask the applicable entity to
>re-sign the letter? Because sometimes the responsible entity changes
>(e.g., a new major in a city) and shouldn’t they have a say, too? Or
>they changed their mind – e.g., after having been approached by a more
>suitable applicant. I think the signature under the support letter
>shouldn’t be older than e.g., 6 months before the application
>submission. The exact amount of time would of course be subject to
>discussion. But I assume we could save ourselves quite some troubles if
>we require to either sign (or re-sign an already signed) letter X
>months before the actual application submission.
>
>I also urge to have the deadline requirement stipulated in the letter
>itself: so that the relevant Government entity is aware that they will
>have to resign the letter later! Something along the lines: “The signee
>is aware that ICANN will require that this letter of support
>(non-objection) has to be authorized (or re-authorized) within 6 months
>to the actual application submission.”
>
>Has the example support letter draft been finalized already? Is the
>draft publicly available for review?
>
> 
>
>Thanks,
>
> 
>
>Alexander 
>
>___________________________________
>
>Alexander Schubert
>
>LinkedIn.com/in/alexanderschubert
><https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/LinkedIn.com/in/alexanderschubert__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!HZjzdcrlRTVfhwyGdwckC63DQ-xayhwPPVqJWZJhtXxtZSLd67kxakHnmedTHTiOu8qb7NG6LqCmOPQsreXQ4N4$>
>
>
>+1(202)684-6806
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
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>
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>
>From: SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt-bounces at icann.org
><mailto:subpro-irt-bounces at icann.org> > On Behalf Of Michael Karakash
>Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 9:51 PM
>To: subpro-irt at icann.org <mailto:subpro-irt at icann.org> 
>Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Topic 21.1: Geographic Names - Updated
>
> 
>
>Dear IRT Members,
>
> 
>
>We’ve updated the Geographic Names AGB section
><https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1N1iLzfPp4IeTuTyO46T7WSjww7kpe_fzJIVOaSQ5qwI/edit?usp=sharing__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!HZjzdcrlRTVfhwyGdwckC63DQ-xayhwPPVqJWZJhtXxtZSLd67kxakHnmedTHTiOu8qb7NG6LqCmOPQseibaGJw$>
>based on the discussions held on the 3 October IRT call. As noted
>during that session, we will not be having another dedicated call on
>this topic but can continue to discuss this on-list if there are any
>comments or concerns.
>
> 
>
>As a reminder, past agenda items and video/audio recordings from the
>previous session can be found on the IRT Community Wiki.
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>
> 
>
>Thank you!
>
> 
>
>Best,
>
> 
>
>Michael
>
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