[tz] Northern Ontario (Canada)

[Brian Inglis]

I don't think that the whole area has to follow a rule, as an area is not 
implied by an id, it just implies that a population follows different rules 
there (c.f. Arizona - Navajo - Hopi rules using Phoenix and Denver zones).

At least using numbered treaty lands limits the id length and suggests the 
location to most of those in the area. I know off the top of my head that I live 
in the Blackfoot Confederacy Treaty 7 area:

	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_7

As I mentioned about labels, the original and alternative Latin 
Nicickousemenecaning and Ojibwe ᒡᐃᓯᑮᐅᐃᓐᑫᑳᐁᒋᑫᕽᑮᑑᒋᑲᒪᒋ renderings are too long, as 
are translations: little otter *berry* (nigigoonsimin) "abundant place" AKA 
*sand cherry* "abundant place", and this is not uncommon; although the earlier 
name Red Gut (Bay - primary reserve location) would work for this zone.

But it may be preferable to come up with an approach that could work for rural 
zones with local governments or populations that don't follow the usual DST 
rules, and where there are no other zones in use?

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis			Calgary, Alberta, Canada

La perfection est atteinte			Perfection is achieved
non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter	not when there is no more to add
mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer	but when there is no more to cut
			-- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


On 2022-10-15 20:40, dpatte via tz wrote:
> Individual reserves usually have their own names such as the one near Fort 
> Frances, "Nigigoonsiminikaaning <http://www.nigigoonsiminikaaning.ca/>" (Little 
> Otters Playing).
> If the whole treaty area followed a rule than I agree that the treaty name would 
> be a good solution.

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 17:35:27 -0600, Brian Inglis via tz wrote:
>> Given that ids are named for the largest municipality observing given rules, and
>> those named municipalities are not documented as nor likely to have diverged
>> from provincial rules, then applying those ids to rural areas, especially
>> reserves, would be erroneous.
>> 
>> In the case of Canadian rural reserves, large areas are normally covered by the
>> federal treaties under which those settlements were negotiated, and if reserves
>> in those treaty areas could be documented to have ignored DST, then perhaps
>> better ids would be e.g. Treaty3 for the ON Lake of the Woods Area, and Treaty60
>> for the ON Nipigon Lake area, given that other applicable labels are likely to
>> be either confusing, excessively long, or require uncommon fonts to render?

>> On 2022-10-15 17:02, Chris Walton via tz wrote:
>>> The changes look correct except that you linked *America/Rainy_River* to 
>>> *America/Toronto* instead of *America/Winnipeg*.
>>> Rainy River is west of 90°W and needs to remain on Central Time.
>>> 
>>> I don't deny that there may have been some small reserves that did not observe 
>>> daylight saving.
>>> They could still be added to the database if somebody wants to do the research 
>>> and provide appropriate names.
>>> However, it would be wrong to use the names of existing towns and cities to 
>>> represent small reserves that exist outside of those towns and cities.

>>> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 at 17:11, dpatte wrote:
>>>> My concern about these changes is that I seem to remember that some
>>>> first nations in those areas did not use daylight-savings time on their
>>>> reserves, and that they were real but very small 'zones', not the large
>>>> zones they ended up being assumed to be.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately I have no documentation either way on this.

>>>> On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 12:53:28 -0700, Paul Eggert via tz wrote:
>>>>> Thank you for doing that investigative work. Proposed patch attached
>>>>> and installed into the tzdb development repository on GitHub.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This patch follows your suggestions, except that it moves Nipigon's
>>>>> and Rainy River's dubious data to 'backzone' instead of removing
>>>>> them entirely, as I worry that some users will want the appearance
>>>>> of completeness no matter how illusory.

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis			Calgary, Alberta, Canada

La perfection est atteinte			Perfection is achieved
non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter	not when there is no more to add
mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer	but when there is no more to cut
			-- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry