[UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay

Ram Mohan rmohan at afilias.info
Tue Nov 17 03:19:05 UTC 2015

UA-DISCUSS is a non-ICANN, community driven group, with financial support
from ICANN and in-kind support by many other organizations.

Anyone can raise topics. If there's interest and relevance, the thread
sustains, else it subsides.

There is no conspiracy here; everyone please move on and contribute to the
UA initiative, which is in everyone's interest.

- Ram

I'm contributing when I can, reading and learning as well, but try to
disagree with the system or criticize it and see how those who demand
obedience to their heirarchy of employement status call you "a troll".
ICANN's system doesn't know any other way to respond to criticism than
using the playbook to get rid of the criticizer. Or they don't respond at
all, in the case of the symbol used on UA documents depicting a face
without a mouth and the words Universal Acceptance where the mouth would
be. I intellectually challenge you to criticize ICANN as a test to see if I
am correct.


* From: * Lars Steffen <lars.steffen at eco.de>;
* To: * 'Ron Baione' <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; Dusan Stojicevic <
dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
* Cc: * ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
* Subject: * AW: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today
regarding Google Pay
* Sent: * Mon, Nov 16, 2015 12:04:25 PM

I don´t want to add any fuel to this but as a quite new member in the ICANN
community as well I can´t agree with the described “ICANN playbook”. I
still feel welcomed. And I do it like Dusan already described: Reading,
learning and contributing to the topic – when I can. Works out really fine.

Kind regards,


*Von:* ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] *Im
Auftrag von *Ron Baione via UA-discuss
*Gesendet:* Freitag, 13. November 2015 04:12
*An:* Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>
*Cc:* ua-discuss at icann.org
*Betreff:* Re: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today
regarding Google Pay


I was more than half way through ICANN learn courses when Jeffrey Dunn
updated the courses to be incompatible with my IPad (IOS 6.0 and greater
compatibility). I asked him about what IOS ICANN learn would be compatible
with and he claimed he didn't know what the courses were compatible with
post-update, then, after deflecting the question until people got annoyed
with the conversation, he said he did know. They key to the delay was that
once people get annoyed, they tend to blame the new person rather than the
knowledgable veteran, as they purposefully forget how the annoying
conversation began.

The ICANN playbook is the same in every group, it is a tried and true
method to get rid of new people who don't "stay quiet" and are accused of
being off the "topic", which is what is claimed as most important. The
truth is most people here have other high paying jobs and they don't want
to see emails from people they never heard of in their inbox as they try to
do those difficult tasks. And even though there is no current "topic",
(someone would have said what the current topic is by now) once someone
claims the new person must "stick to the topic", the remaining steps play
out as follows:

1) Accuse new person who doesn't stay quiet of spamming
2) Ask who the heck this new person is, affiliation, and then say you never
heard of the person
3) Call new person a troll
4) After a few responses, back and forth, accuse the new person of
5) Bring Disruptive matter to attention of group chair and ombudsman
6) First warning issued to new person for disruption
7) Second warning issued to new person for disruption
8) 15 day ban for disruption

Right now we are on step 4.

But think about it, Tim Cook claimed the internet would Universally Accept
a cashless society, and an internet group called Universal Acceptance can't
find a degree of relevance in his claim to its mission and charter, and
he's the biggest Tech CEO on the planet. Pure irony to replace that
interesting discussion with a claim of disrupting a non-existent topic,
simply so that the people here with regular jobs don't have to "waste
precious time" reading the posts of a so-assumed "nobody".

Multistakeholderism failure at its worst if you ask me. If ICANN can't
incorporate current new people who talk, then how can ICANN be trusted to
incorporate new people who talk after the transition? ICANN group members
want these groups closed off to the public in my opinion, but they can't do
that. Heck if I had a big time job at hoogle I wouldn't want to read this
post either, I wouldn't want to comment on Tim Cook. I understand. But
people shouldn't have signed up for a multistakeholder group if they can't
deal with the potential of a new person they never heard of who talks,
rather they should go work for a run of the mill corporation, which they
already do.



*From: *Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
*To: *Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
*Cc: *<ua-discuss at icann.org>;
*Subject: *ODG: Re: ODG: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today
regarding Google Pay
*Sent: *Fri, Nov 13, 2015 1:16:01 AM


Thanks, that reminds me... I wasn't so clever and active as You at the
beginning, I was quiet, doing reading and learning... and I was always
using my real name, so people always knew who I am. Also, I didn't put the
politics in my mails, like you did.

Thanks, again for unreal reply, and if I may say so -
if you want to continue to troll, please go somewhere else.


Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona

---- Ron Baione je napisao/la ----

I was a grassroots newbie accepted just 3 months ago into ISOC NY, and I am
participating in IGF, ISOC, ARIN and ICANN mailing lists and trying to
learn as quickly as possible so that 4 or 5 years from now I can begin
traveling around the world to be a knowledgeable conference participant.
Since I only have the first version of the IPad, my ability to participate
in calls via my IPad is not compatible with adobe connect, unfortunately.


*From: *Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
*To: *Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>; Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>;
Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
*Cc: *<ua-discuss at icann.org>;
*Subject: *ODG: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google
*Sent: *Fri, Nov 13, 2015 12:20:36 AM


Somehow curious: I didn't catch your affiliation, community, country...
Maybe it's my fault, apologize for that if so, but I didn't saw you on any
call or meeting and I don't know you. If You be so kind to introduce
yourself better. Thank you in advance.


Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona

---- Ron Baione via UA-discuss je napisao/la ----

Fair enough, you and Ram don't believe that the involved process of
uncirculating all physical money, as well as the memory of that physical
money having ever existed in the first place, within the time-frame of one
generation of people, is relevant to domain names in any way.

Moving on then, the previous topic was whether or not there should be a
hackathon at ICANN55, and as that seems to have been resolved, what is the
current topic? Is it reverting back to the topic before that, whether or
not google translator shows the link when adding a link to it?



*From: *Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>;
*To: *Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>; Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
*Cc: *ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
*Subject: *RE: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay
*Sent: *Thu, Nov 12, 2015 9:54:51 PM

Ron, we’re about domain names and email addresses, nothing else.  Anything
not related to those topics, such as this thread, are random distractions.
Please stay on topic.

*From:* ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] *On
Behalf Of *Ram Mohan
*Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:10 PM
*To:* Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>
*Cc:* ua-discuss at icann.org
*Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay

This is close to spamming the list.

*From:* Ron Baione [mailto:ron.baione at yahoo.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 3:39 PM
*To:* Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>
*Cc:* ua-discuss at icann.org
*Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay

NASA has stated many times that a solar storm could temporarily knock out
out the power grid, and without physical money at that hypothetical
juncture, people will have to barter. Other possibilities exist now and in
the future which make it realistic to expect the safe guard of physical
money to stick around at least a few more generations incase of a failed
grid event, unless Tim Cook knows thhe future and he knows there will never
be a Solar Storm ever again, it just boggles the mind how someone so
connected to thoughtful people, especially in the cyber-security industry,
could completely discount and disregard Solar activity, where taking money
out of circulation would cause a 100% reliance on technology for payments.
It would take a while, too long, to reprint and recirculate physical money
if that became necessary.

In regards to this topic being relevant to Universal Acceptance's charter,
it is because Tim Cook is an influential person in the tech industry and
added confusion about the future of the internet, stating there will be a
mandatory degree of restricted learning and restricted knowledge conveyance
to the next generation via a process only he seems to know about. The
language and code additions UA is making in regards to language and other
internet necessities should not be deterred, affected by or confused in
that described dystopian future by such an unclarified, alternate vision of
the future internet.

How can any ICANN working group perform its function to the best of ts
abilities, building a better and inclusive internet, when arguably the top
Tech CEO in the world alludes to being privy to a future reality ICANN
isn't privy to? And if Apple asserts that the next generation will not know
what money is, and ICANN and Apple are in the same exact industry, then
ICANN has a responsibility in my opinion to at least ask someone at Apple
how such an implausible reality will be made possible.

Non-germane topics would more likely include gardening, sports and/or
fashion advice. One possibility I thought of as to why such a vague
statement was put out there by Tim, is that since everything about the tech
industry's daily grind must be exact and precise, once it is time to speak
people subconciously go to the opposite mindset extreme, talking vaguely in
an effort to even out their robotic and exhaustive efforts with what feels
like an excercise in philosophy. As a solution to the recurrence of such
subconsious rebalancing of the precision-based mindset with philosophical
vague assertions, language graduates should be hired by the tech industry
to advise industry leaders on how to limit overall global confusion via
their spoken words, symbols and slogans, to speed up progress.



*From: *Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>;
*To: *Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
*Cc: *<ua-discuss at icann.org>;
*Subject: *Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay
*Sent: *Thu, Nov 12, 2015 1:50:46 PM

This is not germane to the universal acceptance topic or charter.


On Nov 11, 2015 9:51 PM, "Ron Baione via UA-discuss" <ua-discuss at icann.org>

This email is to request comment from Brent and any Apple representatives
regarding Google Pay being recently invoked by Apple CEO Timothy Cook as
one of two major "buying and selling" systems within an inevitable cashless
society, the other being Apple's pay system:

Timothy stated, "The next generation will not know what money is.". All
members of UA and ICANN should be brought up to speed on Timothy's
assertion that learning restrictions will be being applied to ICANN and the
internet, so that the rest of us can know exactly how such a feat of
history deletion and restrictions on the learning and conveyance of
historical knowledge would be logically accomplished in such a short period
of time. For example:

1) Would older generations not be allowed to describe physical money to
younger generations?

2) What date will those conveyance and learning restrictions begin?

3) Will UA and ICANN be forced to participate in the deletion of all
photographs, records and mentions of physical money from the internet?

4) Will libraries be forced to discard books that mention or depict
physical money?

5) Will ccwg-accountability have to add language to their proposal for the
NTIA to resteict future ICANN members from using their connections to Apple
and Google against other ICANN members they disagree with on a certain
issues as a future intimidation tactic?

6) Is Timothy Cook asserting personal, intellectual control over the next
generation of people by claiming to know, without any doubt, what they will
and will not know or be able to learn about at an unspecified time of his

It is one thing to claim that the next generation will not use physical
money, but to make such an assertion on what human beings will be aware of
and learn about in terms of what they can and cannot learn, as Timothy
made, seems to be a stretch of the imagination. Unless of course, Brent and
any Apple representatives can fill the rest of us in, respectfully, on the
vague process alluded to by Timothy Cook today. If the CEO of a major
corporation can assert what humans can possibly learn about in the future,
should not such an assertion be at least considered by ICANN's and UA's
mission of a free and open internet for all?



*From: *Rubens Kuhl <rubens at registro.br>;
*To: *Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org>;
*Cc: *ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
*Subject: *Re: [UA-discuss] Hackathon @ ICANN55
*Sent: *Thu, Nov 12, 2015 12:18:09 AM

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:20 PM, Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org>
> Here’s my take on the Hackathon idea @ ICANN55:
> 1) ICANN is a technology conference and there would be few technology
conferences of its size held in the region.
> 2) I note that ICANN is generally around policies, but there are still a
lot of geeks there

ccTLD activities at ICANN are usually of a more technical tone, and ccTLDs
are the most used domains in the AF region, not gTLDs. Involving the local
IDN ccTLDs might be key to attract more geeks.

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