[Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup!

Greg Shatan gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Sun Aug 14 00:02:52 UTC 2016 

Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear understanding
of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups.  The transcripts of
the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that don't shed any
additional light on the matter.  (There's no transcript for the most recent
meeting yet.)

The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1) don't "actively
participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting rights on the
list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the calls, but
there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be a "silent
observer" of any Subgroup call.

Rather than speculating further, or exploring the formulations proposed on
this thread (which I didn't see any support for in my review of CCWG
materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to clarify the role
of the Observers for *all* the Subgroups, including these specific points:

1.  Will Observers get call invitations?
2.  Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call?
3.  If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are they
required to be silent/non-participating?
4.  Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with everyone else?
5.  Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?

I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and that's not quite
settled, because Observers in this group have posted to this list.

Let's see what we hear.

Greg

P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see below....


I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages:

1.  The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup (
https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction) says:

*Active Participants* engage in the day-to-day discussions of the
particular topic. Each active participant is expected to spend at least 3-5
hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting rights to the
mailing list.

*Observers* follow the topic discussion but not actively participate at the
sub-group level. Observers are not expected to spend time on sub-group work
and will not have posting rights to the mailing list.


2.  The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings (https://community.icann.org/
display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary) says:

This Adobe Connect Room is open for *Subgroup* meetings to any and all
silent observers:  https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects


  The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not further
explained.  I have also noticed that people who are signed up as
"Observers" have successfully posted to the list.  So I don't think any of
this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of
Observers in the Subgroups.

In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive call invitations
(with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and participate fully
in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the mailing list.
On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not receive the
call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing list.  As a
rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow the calls,
they can use the recordings and transcripts.  But the CCWG is not a GNSO
WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers in
the CCWG Subgroups either.



On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com');>> wrote:

> Jijani
> The concept of observer is clear
> The Person who participate at the meeting without the right to express any
> views without o the consent of the chair .
> He or she can not intervene more than once unless the lisse i  directly
> touches his or her interest It shall  noz eligible to vote
>
>
> 2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji at gmail.com');>>:
>
>> As I am observer, this most likely would not reach the mailing list(which
>> is right), what may not be accurate(which i also noted to Greg) is that
>> observers are not restricted from joining the calls. They can indeed
>> participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's understanding is
>> somewhat how I understood this as well.
>>
>> Perhaps in the interest of saving funds, observers who wants to join the
>> call may only use the AC and not receive special dialout.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Sent from my LG G4
>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>>
>> On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA" <tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kavouss,
>>>
>>> There is no mention of « Observers » in the CCWG Charter.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -----------------
>>> *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
>>> Executive Director
>>> Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
>>> Phone: +216 98 330 114
>>>             +216 52 385 114
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -----------------
>>>
>>> Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com');>> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Tijani
>>> Peut être la définition se trouve dans notre Charter
>>>  Salutations
>>> Kavouss
>>>
>>> 2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00 Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn');>>:
>>>
>>>> Bonsoir Alain,
>>>>
>>>> Je ne trouve pas de définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes
>>>> du WS 2. Maintenant, et d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux
>>>> observateurs le statut de « voyeurs » passifs.
>>>> Au plaisir de te revoir à Hyderabad
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------------
>>>> *Tijani BEN JEMAA*
>>>> Directeur Exécutif
>>>> Fédération Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (*FMAI*)
>>>> Phone: +216 98 330 114
>>>>              +216 52 385 114
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -----------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 13 août 2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Vinay!  You are correct.
>>>>
>>>> The page where the roles are discussed is here:
>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzcl
>>>> wB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCseqU/edit  The document states that observers
>>>> will not actively participate and will not have posting rights to the
>>>> list.  I believe the role of observers was also described on at least one
>>>> of the CCWG calls, as well.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Parminder,
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. People can check their status here: https://community.icann.
>>>>> org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active
>>>>> participant' at any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in
>>>>> touch with staff at <acct-staff at icann.org
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff at icann.org');>> and simply
>>>>> request a change. You may perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of
>>>>> Interest if you haven't already, but I don't think there are any other
>>>>> requirements. As far as you're concerned I think you're an active
>>>>> participant already. Happy to be corrected on all of this by anyone though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Vinay
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely
>>>>> (hopefully?) be asleep at this point. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder at itforchange.net');>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times,
>>>>>> and I see that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Greg. Two things;
>>>>>> 1. How to know one's status?
>>>>>> 2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best, parminder
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls.  If
>>>>>> you want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status
>>>>>> to "Member."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers
>>>>>> when considering the results, since their time constraints should not
>>>>>> affect the outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup
>>>>>> Rapporteur was concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but
>>>>>> I'm not sure why "Observers" voted at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let me know if I'm missing something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59
>>>>>>> UTC.  PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO.  THANK YOU.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on
>>>>>>>> Jurisdiction,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on
>>>>>>>> behalf of myself and Vinay Kesari.  Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this
>>>>>>>> subgroup.  We look forward to working with all of you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or
>>>>>>>> times to have Subgroup calls.  The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500,
>>>>>>>> 1300 and 1900 UTC.  There are slots available on all days of the week (but
>>>>>>>> not all slots are available on all days, since slots have already been
>>>>>>>> taken by the CCWG and by other subgroups).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week.  In order
>>>>>>>> to determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. *Best time(s) of day for you*.  IMPORTANT NOTES:  This is a *day
>>>>>>>> and time *poll only, for the ongoing work of this group*.  Please
>>>>>>>> ignore the specific dates next week.*  (For your convenience,
>>>>>>>>  times are shown in your time zone, not UTC.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.  *Rotation vs. fixed time*.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please respond by *23:59 UTC* on *Thursday, August 11*, so that we
>>>>>>>> can get our process underway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greg Shatan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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