[Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup!
Paul Rosenzweig
paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
Wed Aug 17 13:06:41 UTC 2016
Greg (and all)
I personally prefer the 1900 UTC, but paraminder’s point is a reasonable
one. I can live with 1300 UTC when and as necessary (though it will get
harder for those to the West of me
).
I write mostly to completely support your instinct that our first meeting
should be about scoping and that we can’t really have that meeting until we
have a strawman scoping document to discuss. Indeed, I suspect strongly
that our biggest decision of all will be to define what is and what is not
within the ambit of our discussions
and so we shouldn’t start running
until we have defined the distance to be run.
Cheers
Paul
Paul Rosenzweig
<mailto:paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com>
paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
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M: +1 (202) 329-9650
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From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org
[mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of parminder
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:21 AM
To: ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction
Subgroup!
On Wednesday 17 August 2016 03:35 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
Pedro,
Based on the Doodle Poll, the largest number of positive answers were for:
* Meetings at 19:00 UTC
* A single meeting time rather than a rotation, with the single
meeting time at 19:00 UTC
Greg
1900 UTC means it is past midnight for all those on the east of Iran, which
is more than half the world's population. If that is the voting preference
of most members that simply says that the group is too heavily west
loaded... It will be a pity if by such a timing we cause further exclusions.
I would say that apart from just a count of preferences other factors like
plausibility for most of the world time zones must also be considered. I
really think the second option best below, of 1300 UTC is what we should go
for. It gives the most even spread across the world.
thanks, parminder
* Monday was the most popular day for a meeting, with Thursday a close
second. Only Friday had a significantly lower number of positive answers
(not surprising, since this gets into Friday evening and night for many
participants, when hopefully we all have better things to do...).
These preferences were consistent whether all answers were considered or
only those of members. When only members' answers were considered, the
above preferences were more pronounced.
By far the lowest number of positive answers were for meetings at 05:00 UTC
and for any rotation that included meetings at 05:00 UTC. I think we can
discard those entirely in our consideration.
There were a moderate number of positive answers for meetings at 13:00 UTC,
but not very close to those for 19:00 UTC. There were also a moderate
number of positive answers for a 13:00/19:00 rotation.
I have not yet conferred with Vinay on this point, but based on these
answers, the preferred choice would be to have all meetings at 19:00 UTC
(and likely on Monday or Thursday). A potential alternative is to have one
meeting a month at 13:00, and three at 19:00, roughly reflecting the weight
of the preferences.
Given the general preference, it seems fair to schedule the first meeting
for 19:00 hours (day subject to review of the Master Calendar).
In terms of timing, I have been reluctant to schedule our first meeting
until the scoping document is available and some time has been allowed for
members to review it. I believe it's important for this document to be the
subject of discussion on our first call. In addition to scope itself, this
would tend to influence our overall work plan. As of now, the scoping
document has not yet been published. I will check with staff to get an ETA
(it was supposed to be some time this week). If we have an ETA, then we can
use that to schedule a first call, even before the document is actually
available.
As for the role of Observers on calls, I tend to agree that if they are on a
call, they should be in listening/reading mode only. Observers will not
receive call invitations, so it would be up to them to calendar those calls.
It also appears that Observers would need to be on the "honor system"; there
appears to be no technical way to put the Observers into listening/reading
mode. (I will ask Staff to explore this further, as I believe I've been in
Adobe Connect rooms where I could not post in the chat or open my
microphone, and I've certainly been on listen-only conference calls. I
guess the question is whether this can be done "granularly," allowing for
both members and observers at the same time.)
Greg
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva
<pedro.ivo at itamaraty.gov.br <mailto:pedro.ivo at itamaraty.gov.br> > wrote:
Dear Greg and Vinay,
Do we have a decision with respect to how to move forward with the
scheduling of the first meeting? Based on the answers from Bernard Turcotte,
I would suggest we consider the doodle poll answers from subgroup members
only.
Given that anyone at any time can become a member, I would also say that
observers should be able to join the calls in silent (just
listening/reading) mode.
Kind regards,
Secretário Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva
Divisão da Sociedade da Informação (DI)
Ministério das Relações Exteriores - Brasil
T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609>
Secretary Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva
Division of Information Society (DI)
Ministry of External Relations - Brazil
T: + 55 61 2030-6609 <tel:%2B%2055%2061%202030-6609>
-----Mensagem original-----
De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org
<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org>
[mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org
<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org> ] Em nome de Tijani BEN JEMAA
Enviada em: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 03:35
Para: Edward Morris
Cc: ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org <mailto:ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org>
Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Welcome to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup!
Thanks Greg,
I made the same search and found the same result.
I subscribed to the Jurisdiction Sub-Group as an observer, but when you said
that observers don’t have to fill the doodle in, I immediately asked the
staff to become member, and I’m now member. That’s why I can post to the
mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Tijani BEN JEMAA
Executive Director
Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)
Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
+216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Le 14 août 2016 à 01:52, Edward Morris <egmorris1 at toast.net
<mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net> > a écrit :
Thanks Greg.
This is an issue popping up in multiple subgroups - thanks for
taking the lead and getting an answer for all of us.
Best,
Ed
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Aug 2016, at 01:03, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com> > wrote:
Based on this thread, it doesn't appear that there's a clear
understanding of the role of "Observers" in Work Stream 2 Subgroups. The
transcripts of the CCWG F2F in Helsinki and the next meeting after that
don't shed any additional light on the matter. (There's no transcript for
the most recent meeting yet.)
The CCWG Wiki pages say that a Subgroup's Observers (1)
don't "actively participate" in the subgroup and (2) won't have posting
rights on the list. There's nothing specific about the Observers and the
calls, but there's a note that anyone (not just Subgroup "Observers") can be
a "silent observer" of any Subgroup call.
Rather than speculating further, or exploring the
formulations proposed on this thread (which I didn't see any support for in
my review of CCWG materials) I will ask CCWG leadership and staff support to
clarify the role of the Observers for all the Subgroups, including these
specific points:
1. Will Observers get call invitations?
2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for
the call?
3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or
are they required to be silent/non-participating?
4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with
everyone else?
5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?
I don't see any answers to these questions, except 5, and
that's not quite settled, because Observers in this group have posted to
this list.
Let's see what we hear.
Greg
P.S. If you really want more detail on this, please see
below....
I found the following information on CCWG wiki pages:
1. The wiki page for the Jurisdiction subgroup
(https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction
<https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction> ) says:
Active Participants engage in the day-to-day
discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is expected to
spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work and will have posting
rights to the mailing list.
Observers follow the topic discussion but not
actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not expected to
spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting rights to the mailing
list.
2. The wiki page for WS2 plenary meetings
(https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary
<https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Meetings+-+WS2+Plenary> ) says:
This Adobe Connect Room is open for Subgroup
meetings to any and all silent observers:
https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects
<https://icann.adobeconnect.com/mssi-projects>
The exact meaning of "not actively participating" is not
further explained. I have also noticed that people who are signed up as
"Observers" have successfully posted to the list. So I don't think any of
this information can lead to any absolute conclusions on the role of
Observers in the Subgroups.
In GNSO Working Groups, it is clear that Members receive
call invitations (with Adobe Connect and dial-in info) and may log in and
participate fully in those calls, and have rights to receive and post to the
mailing list. On the other hand, it is clear that GNSO WG Observers do not
receive the call invitations and do not have posting rights to the mailing
list. As a rule, Observers do not attend the calls; if they want to follow
the calls, they can use the recordings and transcripts. But the CCWG is not
a GNSO WG, so these roles don't lead to absolute conclusions about Observers
in the CCWG Subgroups either.
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Kavouss Arasteh
<kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
<mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> ');> > wrote:
Jijani
The concept of observer is clear
The Person who participate at the meeting without
the right to express any views without o the consent of the chair .
He or she can not intervene more than once unless
the lisse i directly touches his or her interest It shall noz eligible to
vote
2016-08-13 20:06 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji
<seun.ojedeji at gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','seun.ojedeji at gmail.com
<mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> ');> >:
As I am observer, this most likely would not
reach the mailing list(which is right), what may not be accurate(which i
also noted to Greg) is that observers are not restricted from joining the
calls. They can indeed participate in the call if they so wish. So Tijani's
understanding is somewhat how I understood this as well.
Perhaps in the interest of saving funds,
observers who wants to join the call may only use the AC and not receive
special dialout.
Regards
Sent from my LG G4
Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On 13 Aug 2016 18:51, "Tijani BEN JEMAA"
<tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn <mailto:tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
<mailto:tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn> ');> > wrote:
Kavouss,
There is no mention of « Observers »
in the CCWG Charter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Tijani BEN JEMAA
Executive Director
Mediterranean Federation of Internet
Associations (FMAI)
Phone: +216 98 330 114
<tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
+216 52 385 114
<tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Le 13 août 2016 à 18:20,
Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
<mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
<mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> ');> > a écrit :
Tijani
Peut être la définition se
trouve dans notre Charter
Salutations
Kavouss
2016-08-13 19:07 GMT+02:00
Tijani BEN JEMAA <tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
<mailto:tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
<mailto:tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn> ');> >:
Bonsoir Alain,
Je ne trouve pas de
définition des observateurs pour les sous-groupes du WS 2. Maintenant, et
d’une manière informelle, ils donnent aux observateurs le statut de «
voyeurs » passifs.
Au plaisir de te
revoir à Hyderabad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Tijani BEN JEMAA
Directeur Exécutif
Fédération
Méditerranéenne des associations d'Internet (FMAI)
Phone: +216 98 330
114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114> <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
+216 52
385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114> <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Le 13 août
2016 à 00:18, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com> ');> > a écrit :
Thanks,
Vinay! You are correct.
The page
where the roles are discussed is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOCs
eqU/edit
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Iw5yn9GRk8RcnTJzclwB-JuSe3B6JugEj_0oGOC
seqU/edit> The document states that observers will not actively
participate and will not have posting rights to the list. I believe the
role of observers was also described on at least one of the CCWG calls, as
well.
Greg
On Fri, Aug
12, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Vinay Kesari <vinay.kesari at gmail.com
<mailto:vinay.kesari at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari at gmail.com
<mailto:vinay.kesari at gmail.com> ');> > wrote:
Hi
Parminder,
1.
People can check their status here:
https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction
<https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Jurisdiction>
2.
Anyone can change their status from 'observer' to 'active participant' at
any time. I believe the appropriate way would be to get in touch with staff
at <acct-staff at icann.org <mailto:acct-staff at icann.org>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','acct-staff at icann.org
<mailto:acct-staff at icann.org> ');> > and simply request a change. You may
perhaps be asked to fill out a Statement of Interest if you haven't already,
but I don't think there are any other requirements. As far as you're
concerned I think you're an active participant already. Happy to be
corrected on all of this by anyone though.
Regards,
Vinay
PS:
Taking the liberty of responding since Greg will likely (hopefully?) be
asleep at this point. :)
On
12 August 2016 at 09:51, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','parminder at itforchange.net
<mailto:parminder at itforchange.net> ');> > wrote:
On Friday 12 August 2016 02:19 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
All,
I've been reviewing the results of the Doodle polls on call times, and I see
that quite a number of votes came from "Observers."
Thanks Greg. Two things;
1. How to know one's status?
2. Can one simply upgrade oneself from observer to member.
best, parminder
As I understand it, "Observers" do not get invited to the calls. If you
want to participate in the calls, you will need to upgrade your status to
"Member."
I think we will need to find a way to discount the votes of Observers when
considering the results, since their time constraints should not affect the
outcome (because they won't be on the calls...)
I appreciate the high level of compliance (another subgroup Rapporteur was
concerned that their Doodle poll had zero responses), but I'm not sure why
"Observers" voted at all.
Please let me know if I'm missing something.
Greg
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com> ');> > wrote:
REMINDER: THE DOODLE POLLS WILL CLOSE TODAY, AUGUST 11, AT 23:59 UTC.
PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO. THANK YOU.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com
<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com> ');> > wrote:
Dear Participants in the CCWG-Accountability WS2 Subgroup on Jurisdiction,
I’m pleased to welcome you to the WS2 Jurisdiction Subgroup on behalf of
myself and Vinay Kesari. Vinay and I are co-rapporteurs of this subgroup.
We look forward to working with all of you.
In order to get started we’ll need to determine the best time or times to
have Subgroup calls. The Subgroups can have meetings at 0500, 1300 and 1900
UTC. There are slots available on all days of the week (but not all slots
are available on all days, since slots have already been taken by the CCWG
and by other subgroups).
Initially, we expect to have one 1-hour call each week. In order to
determine when to have these calls, we have set up two Doodle polls:
1. Best time(s) of day for you. IMPORTANT NOTES: This is a day and time
poll only, for the ongoing work of this group. Please ignore the specific
dates next week. (For your convenience, times are shown in your time zone,
not UTC.)
LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr
<http://doodle.com/poll/i9g3gmehaa6muhgr>
2. Rotation vs. fixed time.
LINK TO DOODLE POLL: http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b
<http://doodle.com/poll/2ypry3gfgzq4h62b>
Please respond by 23:59 UTC on Thursday, August 11, so that we can get our
process underway.
Best regards,
Greg Shatan
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