[Ws2-jurisdiction] Agenda for Jurisdiction Subgroup Meeting #12

Tue Dec 6 00:34:11 UTC 2016

+1 Greg
-Akinbo.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Kavouss,
>
> On the call today (which you attended), we decided that the questions the
> Subgroup approves would be presented to the CCWG for a first and second
> reading before being sent out.  This is consistent with the approach taken
> with the SO/AC Accountability Subgroup questionnaire.  I assume that
> resolves your current concern.  Also, as I'm sure you are aware, any
> deliverable approved by the Subgroup will then go to the CCWG for a first
> and second reading as well.  The Jurisdiction Subgroup is no different than
> any other subgroup in regard to these working methods.
>
> However, I strongly object to any attempt to delegitimize the work of the
> Jurisdiction Subgroup based on the completely incorrect statement that
> there are very few participants in the group other than "US nationals or US
> affiliated" persons.
>
> I am confident that we can "count on" the work of this Subgroup as fully
> and completely as any other Subgroup.  Any implication otherwise is
> incorrect at best.  Assuming *arguendo* that this is an appropriate way
> to analyze the validity of a working group or subgroup, the facts actually
> destroy your conclusion rather than supporting it.
>
> I'm sure the Co-Chairs are aware of the actual facts, which is that our
> group is large and geographically diverse.  To remind them (and you), the
> list of participants is below.  At least 40 of the 63 participants are
> non-US.
>
> Actual participation is similar.  On the call last week, 14 out of 22
> participants attending the call were non-US: Amrita Vasudevan, Andrew
> Harris, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Erich
> Schweighofer, Farzaneh Badii, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Jean-Jacques
> Subrenat, Jeff Neuman, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Arasteh, Mary Uduma,
> Parminder Jeet Singh, Paul McGrady, Pedro da Silva, Philip Corwin, Rafael
> Perez Galindo, Vinay Kesari, Wale Bakare.
>
> On this week's call, the balance was "only" 50/50, if you include Javier
> Rua-Jovet (Puerto Rico) who was an observer/guest (and new NARALO rep to
> ALAC).  Without Javier, non-US participants were again in the majority.
>
> As you can see, the concern you raise is not only baseless, it is
> completely counterfactual. I thank you for the opportunity to examine the
> facts and point this out.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>    1. *Greg Shatan - Co-Rapporteur*
>    2. *Vinay Kesari - Co-Rapporteur*
>    3. Adebunmi Akinbo
>    4. Agustina Callegari
>    5. Alain Bidron
>    6. Amrita Vasudevan
>    7. Andreea Brambilla
>    8. Andrew Harris
>    9. Avri Doria
>    10. Ayden Férdeline
>    11. Barbara Wanner
>    12. Cheryl Langdon-Orr
>    13. Christopher Wilkinson
>    14. Claudio Lucena
>    15. Corinne Cath
>    16. David McAuley
>    17. Doaa Shendy
>    18. Edward Morris
>    19. Erich Schweighofer
>    20. Farzaneh Badii
>    21. Finn Petersen
>    22. Ghislain de Salins
>    23. Griffin Barnett
>    24. Guru Acharya
>    25. Haoran Huang
>    26. Herb Waye
>    27. Jean-Jacques Subrena
>    t
>    28. Jeff Neuman
>    29. Jimson Olufuye
>    30. John Curran
>    31. Jordan Carter
>    32. Jorge Cancio
>    33. Jyoti Panday
>    34. Kavouss Arasteh
>    35. Konstantinos Komaitis
>    36. Mary Uduma
>    37. Matthew Shears
>    38. Mike Rodenbaugh
>    39. Milton Mueller
>    40. Nigel Roberts
>    41. Pär Brumark
>    42. Parminder Jeet Singh
>    43. Paul McGrady
>    44. Paul Rosenzweig
>    45. Pedro da Silva
>    46. Phil Buckingham
>    47. Philip Corwin
>    48. Phillip Marano
>    49. Pranesh Prakash
>    50. Rafael Perez Galindo
>    51. Renu Sirothiya
>    52. Robin Gross
>    53. Samantha Eisner
>    54. Simon Jansson
>    55. Snehashish Ghosh
>    56. Sonigitu Ekpe
>    57. Steve DelBianco
>    58. Steve Metalitz
>    59. Tijani Ben Jemaa
>    60. Tatiana Tropina
>    61. Tom Dale
>    62. Vidushi Marda
>    63. Wale Bakare
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Dear Grec,
>> The limited no. of participant except US nationals or US affiliated in
>> your group is very few thus you can not and shall not count on that .The
>> CCWG is the most legal, valid, and countable .
>> Pls note that there is a total imbalance of participation of non US.
>> I have already made known this fact to CCWG Co-Chairs.
>> No questions should be sent out before being discussed and agreed
>> Regards
>> Kavouss
>>
>> 2016-12-05 19:04 GMT+01:00 Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Kavouss,
>>>
>>> Based on our work plan, we will get to remedies after we identify and
>>> agree upon issues.  If there are issues for which immunity should be
>>> considered as a possible remedy, we will discuss this concept at that
>>> time.  The same is true of the concept of "additional jurisdiction."  I
>>> have not seen the third issue raised in this group, nor is it mentioned in
>>> Annex 12, so I can't say that this issue is in scope for this subgroup.
>>>
>>> "Question 3" is on the agenda as item #3.  Please be more cautious in
>>> raising complaints of "suppression," as there was no suppression.  The
>>> additional question is on the mailing list, just in a different email
>>> thread, as it has been all along.
>>>
>>> Now that you've brought up the issue of support for this question, I
>>> need to say that your count is incorrect.  There has been a good deal more
>>> opposition than support for sending out this third question.  Nonetheless,
>>> we've given this question the best chance to gain further support by
>>> continuing to discuss how it could be revised, which is only fair.  But
>>> it's also fair to understand that support for this question has been
>>> limited so far, compare to those who have voiced objections to it.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:38 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <
>>> kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Grec,
>>>>
>>>> When you address the following ISSUES:
>>>>
>>>> 1.Immunity taking into account who / what is immune vis a vis whom /
>>>> what?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Provision of additional jurisdiction such as what, Swiss
>>>> jurisdiction or what?
>>>>
>>>> 3. Sovereignty of States via a vis Californian Law or law of any State?
>>>>
>>>> Please kindly put back the question 3 which was on the mailing list
>>>> till yesterday evening Central European time but it was suppressed as
>>>> results of only two objections while many others were in favour of it with
>>>> some language aligbnment
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> 2016-12-05 6:09 GMT+01:00 Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the agenda for Meeting #12 at 19:00 UTC on December 5.  Please
>>>>> continue to discuss the "experience solicitation" questions and the
>>>>> proposed additional question between now and then.  Attention to the Google
>>>>> doc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_uxN8A5J3iaofnGlr5gYo
>>>>> FVKudgg_DuwDgIuyICPzbk/edit?usp=sharing is also important to keep our
>>>>> work moving forward.
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
>>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20161206/1dc2a0e2/attachment.html>