[Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

Tue Aug 20 07:39:43 UTC 2019

I think we discussed some time ago about the promotional and communications support activities like the ones Sam is mentioning. If those discussions didn’t find their way to the report it will be good to review that, although it will be better to do it on a separate thread from the appeals mechanism. I think some of the external experts also touched on that when they talk about set up. If I remember correctly we talked about how the application process should have detailed guidelines to help people prepare, be done with enough time, etc. However, I think we didn’t went into a lot of detail, thinking that was part of an implementation phase outside of the scope of the CCWG. In any case, I think this is a good point to make.

Regards,

Sylvia

________________________________________________________________________

Sylvia Cadena | APNIC Foundation - Head of Programs | sylvia at apnic.net | http://www.apnic.foundation
ISIF Asia, WSIS Champion on International Cooperation 2018 & 2019 | http://www.isif.asia | FB ISIF.asia | @ISIF_Asia | G+ ISIFAsia |
6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD,  4101 Australia | PO Box 3646 | +10 GMT | skypeID: sylviacadena | Tel: +61 7 3858 3100 |  Fax: +61 7  3858 3199
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From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Sam Lanfranco <sam at lanfranco.net>
Date: Tuesday, 20 August 2019 at 4:51 am
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org>, "ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org" <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

I too am in agreement with setting explicit boundaries on what can and cannot be appealed and how that process would work.

I would like to add one more suggestion as food for thought. If we want to broaden the playing field for potential applicants, ICANN might want to provide either an online self-learning module, or a set of webcasts (archived) for an orientation and training process for organizations considering applying for funding. I put this on the table as food for thought because I have seen too many poorly constructed proposals coming from areas where there is intense need but areas where organizations lack the skills to draft an appropriate proposal. For a while I was the head of the board of an organization that "farmed out" its World Bank proposal expert to help organizations less familiar with the details of a good proposal. I would hate to see this pool of funding go mainly to the "same old same old" organizations, only because they had a competitive advantage in proposal writing. ---- Food for thought ---.

Sam Lanfranco
On 8/19/2019 12:54 PM, Marika Konings wrote:
Dear All,

Thank you all for your input. Hereby the current language of the draft Final Report which already addressed the point of the existing accountability mechanism with added in bold and brackets new language which aims to reflect the input received to date:

The CCWG discussed whether an appeals mechanism should be available for applicant not selected and/but agreed that [this would create a level of complexity that was deemed not desirable or necessary, after having reviewed how other organizations deal with appeals. Instead, it is the expectation that applicants not selected would receive feedback as part of the response to their application outlining the reasons for why their application was not selected. Also, in the context of the regular review of the mechanisms, both selected applicants and non-selected applicants should be invited to participate and provide any feedback they may have on how the program can be further improved]. The CCWG did agree that appropriate measures should be taken that would exclude applicants from using ICANN accountability measures such as IRP. The reason for this recommendation is that the Board decision in this context would be in relation to the disbursement of funds based on the recommendations of the independent evaluation panel and not as a result of the ICANN’s Board assessment of an individual application. This should not necessarily prevent applicants from seeking redress through other means as defined by the mechanism responsible for disbursement of auction proceeds.

CCWG Recommendation #NEW: Applicants should not have access to ICANN accountability mechanisms such as IRP to challenge a decision from the independent evaluation panel to not approve their application, but applicants [not selected should receive feedback as part of the response to their application outlining the reasons for why their application was not selected] have a mechanism available that allows them to provide additional clarifications to the independent evaluation panel or flag if it is believed that something in the application was misunderstood or missed.

This will be on the agenda for Wednesday’s meeting so if you have any concerns about the proposed edits, please share these in advance of Wednesday’s meeting.

Best regards,

Marika

From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca><mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
Date: Monday, August 19, 2019 at 10:22
To: "ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org"<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org> <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>, Becky Burr <BBurr at hwglaw.com><mailto:BBurr at hwglaw.com>, Judith Hellerstein <judith at jhellerstein.com><mailto:judith at jhellerstein.com>, "erika at erikamann.com"<mailto:erika at erikamann.com> <erika at erikamann.com><mailto:erika at erikamann.com>
Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com><mailto:johnl at taugh.com>, "ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org"<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org> <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

My recollection is that we were pretty clear that the existing accountabilty mechanisms would not apply, and that it is possible that a fundamental Bylaw change would be required to do that.

Alan
--
Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
On August 19, 2019 12:05:18 PM EDT, Becky Burr <BBurr at hwglaw.com><mailto:BBurr at hwglaw.com> wrote:

It will be particularly important that the final report be clear that the CCWG does not believe that ICANN’s existing accountability mechanisms (ombuds, Reconsiderations, or IRP) should be available to challenge an adverse grant decision.  Those mechanisms are not well suited to this kind of situation.

From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Judith Hellerstein <judith at jhellerstein.com><mailto:judith at jhellerstein.com>

Date: Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 9:14 PM

To: Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com><mailto:erika at erikamann.com>

Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com><mailto:johnl at taugh.com>, CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>

Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

Hi Erika

I agree as well. Sylvia made some excellent points. While I like the idea of an appeals process I can see that it adds an extra layer of complexity to the grant process

Best

Judith

Sent from my iPhone

Judith at jhellerstein.com<mailto:Judith at jhellerstein.com><mailto:Judith at jhellerstein.com><mailto:Judith at jhellerstein.com>

Skype ID:Judithhellerstein

On Aug 17, 2019, at 7:23 AM, Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com<mailto:erika at erikamann.com><mailto:erika at erikamann.com><mailto:erika at erikamann.com>> wrote:

I believe we have an agreement ... though we had such an agreement before but then Sam thought we should reconsider our understanding ... hopefully we can put this item to rest now.

Erika

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com<mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com><mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com><mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Wow, are we seeing "general" support for no appeal mechanism?

Perhaps we can put this sort of to 'bed'?

Add something in our documentation - discussed extensively; considered; recommend that an appeal mechanism is not needed, and would add unneeded complexity, and include a paragraph of explanation, so that in the public comment process, the community commenting feels fully informed?

________________________________

From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Vanda Scartezini <vanda at scartezini.org<mailto:vanda at scartezini.org><mailto:vanda at scartezini.org><mailto:vanda at scartezini.org>>

Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:12 AM

To: Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com><mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com><mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com>>

Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com<mailto:johnl at taugh.com><mailto:johnl at taugh.com><mailto:johnl at taugh.com>>; CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>>

Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

Make sense to me too. I was against an appeal as I said early on since that is the way all R&D grants here works and the independent panel and their report make the not appeal alternative accountable to the society. Not having appellation makes the process quicker allowing the start up of the projects while it makes sense due the development of the technology in the ICT field as is the case of DNS related issues

Vanda Scartezini

Sent from my iPad

Sorry for any typos and misspellings

On 17 Aug 2019, at 00:02, Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com><mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com><mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com>> wrote:

"That being said, grant applicants, both accepted and rejected, should be requested to fill out a survey with their input being used for the annul review of the program."

End quote.

This makes a lot of sense to me, given the the independent nature of the grant process being tabled.

The strength of the selection process should be of sufficient integrity to forgo the additional cost of an appeals procedure which could be quite detrimental to the expected outcome and purpose of the grants.

My view currently is to stay away from appeal procedures of all kinds; and fine tune the mechanisms to ensure that grant awards stay well within pre established control lines. There are already review mechanisms, designed to keep the process in line with ICANN's mission and purpose. I am thinking that in the context of an independent body, and the relative size of the fund, and the advice of others on this d list, no appeal process is going to be "very light weight" .

I think, we should keep it out of the equation if at all possible. Each funding call should be drafted with this in mind...

RD

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 22:21 Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca><mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca><mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>> wrote:

I agree with John. I do not think that we should have an appeal

process. That being said, if we MUST have one it should:

- be VERY light weight;

- there must be VERY tight time requirements for submission

- go to the manager of the selection group with the final result being final;

- the final result being the project is accepted or still rejected.

Specifically, there should be no "reason" given (as has recently been

suggested).

Note that we may end up rejecting perfectly good projects. But they

may not, in the view of the evaluators, have a sufficiently high

benefit:cost ration. Or we may simply have used up all of our funds

for that period on projects that were better!

As John mentions, cost is an issue. If there is an appeal process,

and the cost is minimal or zero, it will be used by pretty much

everyone who is rejected, significantly increasing the cost of the

program with little positive outcome.

That being said, grant applicants, both accepted and rejected, should

be requested to fill out a survey with their input being used for the

annul review of the program.

Alan

At 16/08/2019 09:46 PM, John R Levine wrote:

Are we going to just ignore the input from people who actually run

such grant making organizations @Sylvia

Cadena<mailto:sylvia at apnic.net<mailto:sylvia at apnic.net><mailto:sylvia at apnic.net>> has weighed in on this with some

factual statements that we seem to have just glossed over?

I am a trustee of the Internet Society, where we have recently set up

an actual captive grant making foundation with no appeal process, so

no, we are not. It's a bad idea.

R's,

John

At 15/08/2019 09:32 AM, John R Levine wrote:

Following on from the last CCWG call and the input received on the individual

appeals mechanism, please find attached an updated proposal for your review.

Please share any comments, concerns or suggestions you may have in advance of

the next CCWG meeting which has been scheduled for Wednesday 21 August.

It's OK to have an appeal process but this leaves some rather important

questions open, e.g.

* Who pays for the appeal?  Is it like UDRP where the parties split

the cost, or

is it all ICANN?

* I expect that no matter what we say, most appeals will in fact be applicants

who are unhappy that they didn't get funded.  Is there a way to dispose of

obviously bogus appeals efficiently?  Obviously bogus means things like not

identifying any process failure other than saying no.

Regards,

John Levine, johnl at iecc.com<mailto:johnl at iecc.com><mailto:johnl at iecc.com><mailto:johnl at iecc.com>, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet

for Dummies",

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--

------------------------------------------------

"It is a disgrace to be rich and honored in an

 unjust state" -Confucius

 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也

------------------------------------------------

Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus), Econ, York U., CANADA

email: sam at lanfranco.net<mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>   Skype: slanfranco

blog:  https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com

Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
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