[CWG-RFP3] Is there is a more suitable legal jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?
Seun Ojedeji
seun.ojedeji at gmail.com
Wed Nov 5 20:29:19 UTC 2014
Hi all,
IMHO i think we may be delving into something that does not necessarily
apply to this group(i.e we don't have the ultimate decision for this). I
don't think the issue of jurisdiction is what we should be spending time on
as there is a different working group where that is more appropriate; since
its a topic more applicable to ICANN as an organisation. Unless we now want
to incorporate IANA and register it somewhere for the first time[1].
Regards
1. which will not seem to address anything IMO
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Burr, Becky <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz> wrote:
> The group of organizations working on the NGO Accountability Charter in
> the link Robert just sent around is very instructive:
>
> ActionAid International,
> Amnesty International
> Caritas Internationalis
> Care International
> CBM International
> CIVICUS World Alliance for Citizen Participation,
> CORDAID
> European Environmental Bureau
> Greenpeace International
> Educo
> IRC (International Water & Sanitation Centre)
> Oxfam International
> Plan International
> Sightsavers International
> SOS Kinderdorf International
> The Forest Trust
> World Vision International
> World YWCA
>
> These organizations may all be doing important work but - UNLIKE ICANN -
> they are NOT regulating commercial behavior. If I don¹t like what
> Greenpeace is doing, I won¹t make a contribution. But I can¹t operate a
> top level domain or sell registrations in .com without paying ICANN and
> complying with the policies it imposes. It seems fairly obvious to me
> that ICANN should be held to a different accountability standard.
>
> B
>
>
> J. Beckwith Burr
> Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
> Office: + 1.202.533.2932 Mobile: +1.202.352.6367 /
> becky.burr at neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/5/14, 12:43 PM, "Robert Guerra" <rguerra at privaterra.org> wrote:
>
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA512
> >
> >Kieren,
> >
> >Let me share two quick links that I was able to to find that could be
> >of interest in regards providing more details about International
> >Non-Governmental Organizations and what seems to be best practices
> >that others are working on in regards to accountability.
> >
> >Links below..
> >
> >regards
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >European Convention on the Recognition of the Legal Personality of
> >International Non-Governmental Organizations
> >
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_the_Recognition_of_the
> >_Legal_Personality_of_International_Non-Governmental_Organizations
> >
> >http://www.uia.org/archive/legal-status-4-11
> >
> >International Non-Governmental Organisations Accountability Charter
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Non-Governmental_Organisations_
> >Accountability_Charter
> >
> >The International Non-Governmental Organisations Accountability
> >Charter (INGO Accountability Charter) is a charter, founded in 2006 by
> >a group of independent non-profit organisations, which is intended to
> >foster accountability and transparency of non-governmental
> >organisations, as well as stakeholder communication and performance.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On 2014-11-05 12:30 PM, Kieren McCarthy wrote:
> >> I'm finding this conversation thread very frustrating.
> >>
> >> If this is a topic being seriously considered - and it looks like
> >> it is. And if none of us are in any way qualified to provide a
> >> cogent analysis - which it looks like we aren't. Then surely the
> >> obvious solution is to find someone, or some group, that can
> >> provide some answers to questions.
> >>
> >> Based purely on human nature, I strongly suspect that the argument
> >> that California is some how a special place for ICANN/IANA is more
> >> to do with it being the status quo than any verifiable reality.
> >>
> >> It is possible that IANA would be better placed in another
> >> jurisdiction - although since we have failed to draw up any grounds
> >> by which that judgment would be made, the whole conversation seems
> >> a little pointless.
> >>
> >> It is equally possible that moving jurisdiction would have no real
> >> impact at all.
> >>
> >> One thing that I do see as a fact is that "California law" has been
> >> used repeatedly to stymie recommended changes that the staff hasn't
> >> agreed with or wanted to introduce. That is a problem.
> >>
> >> If that is the problem we are seeking a solution to, it strikes me
> >> that the conversation should focus on how to get independent
> >> analysis of decisions that reference "California law" as a reason
> >> for a given direction rather than embark on a discussion about
> >> jurisdictions overall.
> >>
> >> Either way, let's take our jobs seriously and find some experts
> >> rather than mistake familiarity with expertise.
> >>
> >>
> >> Kieren
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Allan MacGillivray
> >> <allan.macgillivray at cira.ca <mailto:allan.macgillivray at cira.ca>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Becky I think that would be of considerable value. ____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Allan____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> *From:*cwg-rfp3-bounces at icann.org
> >> <mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces at icann.org>
> >> [mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces at icann.org
> >> <mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Burr, Becky
> >> *Sent:* November-05-14 10:01 AM *To:* Becky Burr; Dwi Elfrida
> >> Martina *Cc:* RFP3
> >>
> >>
> >> *Subject:* Re: [CWG-RFP3] Is there is a more suitable legal
> >> jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Team -____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Jurisdiction issues are very complex. I believe that it would be
> >> extremely helpful for us (as well as for many other work streams)
> >> to develop a shared perspective on the basic rules and issues.
> >> Although there are many lawyers participating, we would probably
> >> get the most benefit from an independent/neutral provider. If this
> >> is of interest, I would be happy to work with the co-chairs and
> >> other interested folks to put materials and a webinar
> >> together.____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> J. Beckwith Burr____
> >>
> >> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy
> >> Officer____
> >>
> >> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006____
> >>
> >> Office: + 1.202.533.2932 <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:
> >> +1.202.352.6367 <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / becky.burr at neustar.biz
> >> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
> >> <http://www.neustar.biz>____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> *From: *<Burr>, Becky Burr <becky.burr at neustar.biz
> >> <mailto:becky.burr at neustar.biz>> *Date: *Wednesday, November 5,
> >> 2014 at 9:24 AM *To: *Dwi Elfrida Martina <dwi.elfrida at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:dwi.elfrida at gmail.com>> *Cc: *RFP3 <cwg-rfp3 at icann.org
> >> <mailto:cwg-rfp3 at icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [CWG-RFP3] Is there is
> >> a more suitable legal jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Several independent review panels have held that ICANN is subject
> >> to international law. ____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Becky Burr ____
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone____
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 5, 2014, at 03:50, Dwi Elfrida Martina
> >> <dwi.elfrida at gmail.com <mailto:dwi.elfrida at gmail.com>> wrote:____
> >>
> >> Hi, ____
> >>
> >> my name is Dwi Elfrida, I am from Indonesia. in respond to optioned
> >> 2 from Robert, and thanks to bring the jurisdiction issue up, in my
> >> opinion to tie up IANA legal status to ICANN's legal status might a
> >> faster way to reach IANA's legislation. But, it wouldn't be
> >> solution for many parties who questioned IANA's independency from
> >> the US government authority, as I know, for some parties the good
> >> news (main spirit) of transition of IANA stewardship is to
> >> internationalized IANA, means to dismiss the image of single
> >> authority of the US government over IANA. Meanwhile, some parties
> >> are still debated the ICANN's legislation that cannot be counted as
> >> International law, as all cases of TLD (mostly gTLD) will be
> >> processed in the US by using the US law. Therefore, the government
> >> of France (at ICANN meeting in London) was still calling the issue
> >> of making ICANN as International organization legalized by
> >> International law. And this idea seems like supported by some
> >> governments in Europe, and other part of this world. Indeed,
> >> placing IANA's functions and office from the US to other part of
> >> this world, is not the solution as well, because it is not the
> >> matter or territory, but the matter of legislation system, which
> >> law that suitable enough to validate IANA? do we agree to use the
> >> US legislation system like has been used by the ICANN, or do we
> >> agree to use International law, then how will we make it happen?
> >> Our choice on IANA's legislation system will determine the law
> >> enforcement of IANA's policies in the future. ____
> >>
> >> Regards,____
> >>
> >> Dwi____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Greg Shatan
> >> <gregshatanipc at gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>
> >> wrote:____
> >>
> >> Boxbe
> >>
> >><
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_overv
> >>iew&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahO
> >>P8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=dwXKcyJyHjOeOv
> >>MCvWgkHIQUnNb53ULq_5GsKBtjdqM&e=>Greg
> >>
> >>
> >Shatan (gregshatanipc at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>) is not on your Guest List
> >>
> >><
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_appro
> >>ved-2Dlist-3Ftc-5Fserial-3D19182912144-26tc-5Frand-3D1184408227-26utm-5Fs
> >>ource-3Dstf-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DANNO-5FMWTP-26utm-5
> >>Fcontent-3D001-26token-3DqXEye5ECFs8sowPv0-252F4O8pOgVuL-252FBmLxktanSEOA
> >>IoHm3oce3A-252BGf6umfpPHJkCc-26key-3DhXVOG4roryQLXAw-252BAJXI90w8csVOeh5x
> >>YEclQYt0Qbk-253D&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8M
> >>o8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=l
> >>0Hpa_joycqSp3Z7zfl75E-l1fPnGYe97BVXeJCeLdI&e=>
> >>
> >>
> >| Approve sender
> >>
> >><
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_anno-
> >>3Ftc-5Fserial-3D19182912144-26tc-5Frand-3D1184408227-26utm-5Fsource-3Dstf
> >>-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DANNO-5FMWTP-26utm-5Fcontent-3D
> >>001-26token-3DqXEye5ECFs8sowPv0-252F4O8pOgVuL-252FBmLxktanSEOAIoHm3oce3A-
> >>252BGf6umfpPHJkCc-26key-3DhXVOG4roryQLXAw-252BAJXI90w8csVOeh5xYEclQYt0Qbk
> >>-253D&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYa
> >>hOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=DuwSLG5ar2V4
> >>oU67ZKkRXsAZXkWFaXvH6ogLhFbsl8U&e=>
> >>
> >>
> >| Approve domain
> >>
> >><
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_anno-
> >>3Ftc-5Fserial-3D19182912144-26tc-5Frand-3D1184408227-26utm-5Fsource-3Dstf
> >>-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DANNO-5FMWTP-26utm-5Fcontent-3D
> >>001-26dom-26token-3DqXEye5ECFs8sowPv0-252F4O8pOgVuL-252FBmLxktanSEOAIoHm3
> >>oce3A-252BGf6umfpPHJkCc-26key-3DhXVOG4roryQLXAw-252BAJXI90w8csVOeh5xYEclQ
> >>Yt0Qbk-253D&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjD
> >>mrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=2jX-2m
> >>WyYFU7bmDZVRcEHQfGtVoCrA-zbiHakjXt0WM&e=>
> >>
> >>
> >____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> All: ____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Here is Robert's second question (which I think also applies to the
> >> concept of a fully independent IANA): ____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> *For option #2.
> >>
> >> - Is there is a jurisdiction that ICANN has (or can obtain) legal
> >> status might be more suitable to use to create IANA as a
> >> subsidiary. Such an option might allow for the link to be a
> >> subsidiary of ICANN, but sever the legal link to the US. A
> >> negative, of course, would be moving the function and existing
> >> staff to a new part of the world.*____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Comments and discussion?____
> >>
> >> __ __
> >>
> >> Greg____
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing
> >> list Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org <mailto:Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org>
> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3
> >>
> >><
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailma
> >>n_listinfo_cwg-2Drfp3&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GR
> >>laq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8e
> >>A&s=dYjlRZKCFivOUjM8w-G3Ngmrm3uTYteQNcbUQCVgfQ0&e=>____
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- ____
> >>
> >> Dwi Elfrida MS____
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing
> >> list Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org <mailto:Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org>
> >>
> >>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman
> >>_listinfo_cwg-2Drfp3&d=AAICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRl
> >>aq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA
> >>&s=dYjlRZKCFivOUjM8w-G3Ngmrm3uTYteQNcbUQCVgfQ0&e=____
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing
> >> list Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org <mailto:Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org>
> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing
> >> list Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org
> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3
> >>
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUWmHTAAoJECGvm3vMAIQDFUMH+gIC9mtMuql349wqMqmj3+6X
> >gnYX7odkyaa9Tq+nvRhc/xwTLISWASXbqrauj19bagSwfdaAVBEo+AaI2ZVu+S/w
> >chgYOYGwoAHHg6eyV9s1GyWNTO0pZd1EDDoNuZ0oa7DqGn0Uemu1u6WnD5eR1ojm
> >Qwh4pa4eURVd4puWJF9hjyGbvUC2Qfopa8bE/hLV2gg8+/mL92MHjWgj6cAkkAkt
> >2JnpJy3AXFaoFvHArtGTy2HG/+iJKxmbQ8CbE6lNUzRETLAo4vfj/8piiRJtxD1f
> >jLQcIuThaEFUX2BMdH0SozP6ZUP5FFPIWufh6jrWfePDykWzIi2WqSuV1csScco=
> >=ao4l
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >_______________________________________________
> >Cwg-rfp3 mailing list
> >Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org
> >https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cwg-rfp3 mailing list
> Cwg-rfp3 at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3
>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
The key to understanding is humility - my view !
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-rfp3/attachments/20141105/e1e33e41/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Cwg-rfp3
mailing list