[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 05 August 2014 at 1400 UTC

Terri Agnew terri.agnew at icann.org
Tue Aug 5 22:17:50 UTC 2014

Dear All,


Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 05 August 2014 at 14:00 UTC at:


 <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140805-en.mp3> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140805-en.mp3


On page: 

 <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:

 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/



Steve Metalitz - IPC

Justin Macy – BC

Sarah Wyld - RrSG

Chris Pelling – RrSG

Darcy Southwell - RrSG

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Val Sherman – IPC

Griffin Barnett – IPC

Susan Kawaguchi – BC

Kathy Kleiman – NCUC

Todd Williams – IPC

Michele Neylon – RrSG

Tatiana Khramtsova – RrSG

Frank Michlick – Individual

Luc Seufer- RrSG

Volker Greimann-RrSG

Don Blumenthal – RySG

Osvaldo Novoa – ISPCP

Libby Baney-BC

David Hughes-IPC

Holly Raiche – ALAC

Kristina Rosette – IPC

David Heasley-IPC

Dan Burke-Individual

Christian Dawson-ISPCP

Jim Bikoff-IPC

Sean McInerney-SOI



Stephanie Perrin – NCSG

Alex Deacon – IPC

Paul McGrady – IPC

Carlton Samuels – ALAC

Roy Balleste – NCUC


ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Marika Konings

Amy Bivins

Terri Agnew


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **


Mailing list archives:

 <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/


Wiki page:

 <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg


Thank you.

Kind regards,

Terri Agnew




 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 05 August 2014:

  Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting on 05 August 2014

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all :)

  Luc Seufer:Hi Chris

  Graeme Bunton:Good morning all

  Christian Dawson:Good mornig

  Michele Neylon:wow

  Christian Dawson::)

  Chris Pelling:@Don, please do not take this as rudeness, but can you turn your MIC down ?

  Terri Agnew:Frank Michlick and Volker Greimann has joined

  Holly Raiche:fine by me

  Volker Greimann:Apologies, I am delayed on another call, will join this one in a few minutes

  Terri Agnew:Osvaldo Novoa has joined

  Terri Agnew:Thank you for the information Volker

  Chris Pelling:@Luc 'ello

  Darcy Southwell:My audio isn't working ... 

  Darcy Southwell:I'll come back

  Terri Agnew:David Hughes has joined audio

  Terri Agnew:Kristina Rosette has joined

  Kristina Rosette:Apologies for being late

  Luc Seufer:Sorry guys, but could we take a step back and address the root issue that mail servers can be silent and there is no obligation for a registrant to have his email address setup in a way it will send bounce/error messages?

  Luc Seufer:exactly, you don't necessarily got a bounce back with "regular "registration

  Mary Wong:@Luc I believe the current recommendation is to notify only when provider knows of actual failure (ie something similar to the "knowingly" standard in the RAA, albeit for a different situation)

  Graeme Bunton:This is where I think we're a bit stuck, thanks Michele

  Graeme Bunton:We're also leaving it more open than email.  Could be form, captcha etc

  Mary Wong:@Graeme, that's the current state of discussion, yes

  Luc Seufer:@Mary thanks that's what the recommendation is saying but not what I am hearing on the call

  Chris Pelling:@Steve - NOT all servers comply with RFC on bounce's

  Chris Pelling:for example RFC3463

  steve metalitz:@Darcy it is not an either/or.  Investigate AND notify requester. 

  Chris Pelling:Sorry but are we missing the underlying server HAS to provide the bounce back in the first palce

  Chris Pelling:*place

  Mary Wong:@Darcy, there's currently a prelim conclusion for Charter question B-2 that concerns provider obligation to verify for accuracy

  Darcy Southwell:Thanks, Mary.

  Graeme Bunton:thanks Steve.

  Kathy:What's the minimum baseline? What are the choices for p/p providers?

  Libby Baney:Trying to define the world of possible "abuse case"  messages strikes me as cumbersome and open to inconsistent interpretation

  Kathy:Quick note: the question is phrased: What, if any, are the baseline minimum standardized relay process... be adopted by p/p providers.. 

  Holly Raiche:@Kathy - I think that is the baselline

  Kathy:@Holly, and I think your summary was a good one!


  Luc Seufer:ICANN  policy email as an example

  Luc Seufer:the verification emails sent under 2013 RAA

  Luc Seufer:etc.

  Susan Kawaguchi:There is many types of emails that should be relayed.  I do not understand why a proxy registration should be treated any different than a "regular" registration

  Luc Seufer:I totally agree with you Susan

  Kathy:@Susan: we've had long conversations regarding abuse, definitions of abuse, and the types of abuse messages that must be forwarded.

  Kathy:(Relayed really)

  Kathy:So now the idea of forwarding everything... interesting implications

  Susan Kawaguchi:Proxy does not equal spam filters 

  Kathy:@Steve, shouldn't there be a choice?

  Luc Seufer:@Kathy forwarding doesn't prevent you from applying an anti-spam filter

  Susan Kawaguchi:as a domain name registrant I have a responsibility to have a functioing email address 

  Luc Seufer:just like for "regular" registration

  Susan Kawaguchi:I agree Luc

  Graeme Bunton:digging into some notes, for a sec

  Mary Wong:@Luc, that is correct - even for a "forward all" obligation, providers should be able to filter or apply "commercially reasonable

  Mary Wong:safeguards

  Luc Seufer:Mary I am not speaking of the P/P provider, the RNH/user can use the filter that they chose to

  Mary Wong:Ah, ok, thx

  Luc Seufer:but this FW obligation should be on a best efforts basis

  Luc Seufer:there is no guarantee those emails will be read by the user 

  steve metalitz:@Kathy or others:  Could someone propose a list of the categories of notices that must be forwarded?  

  Mary Wong:@Kathy @Susan would the "commercially reasonable" language cover this situation?

  Chris Pelling:We do - as its a three factor auth to get an email to the registrant/tech or nilling contact

  Kathy:@Mary: I don't think so -- because "commercially reasonable" forarding of "all emails" (which I think is what you are suggesting) is far different that "allegations of illegal activities" which is what the question asks us

  Mary Wong:@Kathy, yes, this is where E-1 elides into E-2

  steve metalitz:@Chris so we now have one provider vote for the additive approach.  Others?  

  Kathy:@Mary: so the standard would be "commercially reasonable" standard for forwarding allegations of illegal activities...?  Sounds OK if that's the case.

  Susan Kawaguchi:@ Michele I agree we shouldn't limit what services the proxy service provides but I don't think we should set the baseline at that granular level  

  Michele Neylon:Susan - I don't think we should set silly limits 

  Terri Agnew:Sean McInerney has joined audio

  Mary Wong:@Kathy, for E-1 "commercially reasonable efforts to relay" is one option; if that is the preferred option, then the implications on E-2 (on screen now) will need to be addressed (or so I understand the discussion)

  Chris Pelling:can I reply to this please


  steve metalitz:+1 Susan, a no-forward policy cannot be allowed.  We discussed this in detail several weeks ago. 

  steve metalitz:.cat obtained a waiver from RAA Whois requirements

  Michele Neylon:yes they did

  Michele Neylon:kudos to them

  Chris Pelling:Graeme ?

  Mary Wong:We may have some AC audio issues

  Graeme Bunton:i don't think it's actually kathy live

  Graeme Bunton:sounds like its the recording malfunctioning

  Volker Greimann:i can wait

  Luc Seufer:this AC is haunted 

  Terri Agnew:It appears our AC audio has stopped working iwth Audio, I will reconnect it

  Volker Greimann:I cannot hear steve very well, btw

  Don Blumenthal:Am I coming through?

  Graeme Bunton:not at the moment

  Mary Wong:Apparently a problem only with those purely on AC mic and audio, so if you are on phone bridge you should be fine.

  Luc Seufer:yes Don, you and ghost Steve

  Kathy:no Don

  Graeme Bunton:Well, that's an unfortunate way to end the call

  Terri Agnew:one moment will re establish Adobe line

  Don Blumenthal:I just got a notice that AC dropped audio

  Don Blumenthal:Can't get back in

  Volker Greimann:time is out anyway

  Terri Agnew:Adobe connect has been re estalbished 

  Graeme Bunton:Yes please, thank you Mary

  Luc Seufer:bye

  Darcy Southwell:Thanks, bye.


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