[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call 22 June 2016 105:00 UTC
Gomes, Chuck
cgomes at verisign.com
Wed Jun 22 18:40:10 UTC 2016
Both of your objections are noted.
That said, I would like to point out a few things from my point of view:
· The document we are talking about is three pages long and a large portion of it has not materially changed from a week ago except for some edits that were made as a result of discussions in our meeting a week ago and on the list since then.
· The main new element is in section 3 of the document, which is less than 1 ½ pages long and a large part of it is made up of examples.
· Calling the new element ‘dramatic’ seems dramatic to me but I will respect the opinion. The new element is not having us do anything we would not have done anyway; it just moves it a little closer, allows us more time to triage the list and facilitates doing some deliberation several weeks sooner than would otherwise be possible, while still allowing open and full discussions of everyone.
We asked for input and you gave it. Thanks.
Chuck
From: Greg Shatan [mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 11:04 AM
To: Kathy Kleiman
Cc: RDS PDP WG; Gomes, Chuck; James Bladel; Edward Morris
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call 22 June 2016 105:00 UTC
I will take any opportunity I have to agree with Kathy.
I agree with Kathy.
Greg
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
I am objecting. There is a real world going on. Children are graduating, people are preparing for travel, mothers (and fathers) are preparing for the upcoming trip. Normally WGs are in a quiet period this week: they don't put out bold new materials, they don't hold midnight meetings (or any meetings -- RPM WG canceled for this week).
So let me be the first to share very strong objections to the procedural approach -- too much, too fast, too late. I apologize, but I have to raise this objection for all of us who are indeed doing this job as volunteers, and have a real world of jobs and families in the background.
Let's stop and talk about these dramatic new approaches and new versions in Helsinki. I strongly object.
Best, Kathy
On 6/22/2016 9:34 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
For those who were unable to participate in the this week’s WG call, I strongly encourage you listen to the recording before Friday. We spent a lot of time going over the latest version of the ‘Possible approach to consensus in deliberation of possible requirements for RDS PDP WG’ that I sent out about 3.5 hours before the WG meeting. As stated in the meeting, our goal is to ensure that the full WG is supportive of the approach before the Helsinki meetings. If we do not receive any strong objections by Friday, we will assume that we can proceed with this approach. Note that there were no objections expressed in the meeting.
I reattached the latest approach document to make it easy to review it while listening to the recording.
Chuck
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Nathalie Peregrine
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:42 AM
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Cc: gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>
Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call 22 June 2016 105:00 UTC
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Wednesday, 22 June 2016 at 05:00 UTC.
Mp3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-22jun16-en.mp3<http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-22jun16-en.mp3%A0> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-22jun16-en.mp3%A0>
<http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-14jun16-en.mp3>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/ix2OAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Nathalie
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday 22 June 2016
Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the RDS PDP WG call on Wednesday 22 June 2016 at 5:00 UTC
Nathalie Peregrine:Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Morning everyone...
Nathalie Peregrine:Welcome!
Chuck Gomes:Hello all.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everyone
Chuck Gomes:Welcome to your first WG call Maxim.
Holly Raiche:Hello all
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):thanks
stephanie perrin:not hearing anything, is that just me or is there nothing going on yet?
stephanie perrin:thanks Chuck!
Sana Ali:no
Sana Ali:not nice
Holly Raiche:It's a TERRIFIC time for the call
Sana Ali::p
stephanie perrin:No and I am at the kids to do baby duty.....so I will be typing not talking, as if I wake him I it will be my turn on deck....
stephanie perrin:1 am for those of us in Toronto, Hi Sana!!
Michele Neylon:I'm still on coffee number 1
Sana Ali:Hello Stephanie!
Michele Neylon:My new Japanese coffee making kit makes a nice coffee though
Holly Raiche:@ Michele - we'llwait til you're on No. 2
Chris Pelling:Good morning all
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB: two cups ahead of you Michele
Michele Neylon:yummy coffee http://www.fat.ie/equipment/kalita-wave-coffee-dripper.html
Susan Kawaguchi:@Stephanie is this a new grandchild?
stephanie perrin:he is almost 9 months now Susan....still pretty new though!
Susan Kawaguchi:9 months is a fun age!
stephanie perrin:and so much more enjoyable as a grandmother!!
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):my SOI https://community.icann.org/display/gnsosoi/Maxim+Alzoba+SOI
Ayden Ferdeline:hello. can we please have scrolling enabled on this document. thanks
Lisa Phifer:@Ayden sync is off
Lisa Phifer:This document, and all others referenced during this call, can be found here:https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw
Ayden Ferdeline:gated access
stephanie perrin:When do we figure out the purpose of the RDS and whether we need a new one?
Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie purpose is one of the "big three" identified as the first topic of discussion in task 12
Lisa Phifer:The foundational question of whether a new one is needed is after public comment on the first initial report
stephanie perrin:Those are purposes of the data, not purpose of the collection use and dsiclosure of registration data, a far more fundamental question.
stephanie perrin:data elements
Sana Ali:yes important distinction stephanie
stephanie perrin:Thanks Holly, I had indeed not seen it as I have been driving for 5 hours and I am taking this don't text and drive thing seriously.....
stephanie perrin:very helpful
Lisa Phifer:"volun-told"
stephanie perrin:I still have outstanding requirements to send in.
Susan Kawaguchi:sure
stephanie perrin:Let me make a suggestion, recognizing the huge work already done. Could we have a section on legal requirements that cannot be broken? Such as constitutional requirements for due process and criminal procedure, human rights obligations, data retention restrictions, etc etc
Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, there can certainly be a group for laws
Lisa Phifer:currently we have one "applicable law"
stephanie perrin:I guess it is a group....recognizing that there are numerous lens one could apply to this
stephanie perrin:In other words, we cannot bury legal requirements in the possible requirements list. Complying with law is not a possible requirement, it is an obligation
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think it might be a good idea to use "applicable law" as a tag - due to some jurisdictional systems have different areas regulated e.t.c.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):just to mark it as a reason for the question
Susan Kawaguchi:We do have an applicable law group
Ayden Ferdeline:good point @stephanie - i would like to see both a differentiation in this document between legal obligations and possible requirements
Sana Ali:+1 stephanie
Holly Raiche:Exactly my issue
Ayden Ferdeline:Just a point of clarification, @Holly, an EU directive is a requirement on the member states to achieve a particular result.
stephanie perrin:I think that is what I am driving at. Yes, some of us have signed on to both the Cybercrime convention, and convention 108. That becomes a legal obligation then, subject to applicable derogations, but it should be noted that a significant number of jurisdictions have overriding obligations (which they and their GAC members may or may not be acutely aware of)
Holly Raiche:@ Stephanie -I understand tha, but the EU Directives are requirements on national entities to enact laws- and my point is that it's too hard to put things into a category call laws when requirements may be more orless binding
stephanie perrin:I understand Holly, but regionally at least for the EU, it is useful to summarize via the Directive, and as long as the EU holds together after Thursday, the Regulation will clarify a lot.
Alex Deacon:wouldn't the realm of all "legal obligations" be pretty huge? Maybe lets make sure we focus on relevant laws (??), and dont overwork ourselves....
Holly Raiche:@ Alex - yes, it will be huge - BUT do we really want obligations (or varying 'binding' nature scatered across categories?
Sana Ali: @Alex lets also not waste our work by lumping things in a way that obfuscates the importance of certain requirements over others.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):obligations are relevant to registries/registrars of that particular jurisdiction they are based in ... so it is not going to be one size fits it all\
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):could we use legal requirement as a note and not as a group?
Ayden Ferdeline:@Alex yes, this is a good point. we could make our work easier by deciding upon a standard by which to assess whether or not the RDS complies with, say, data privacy laws. we have to start somewhere
stephanie perrin:I like that idea Maxim, could add a column to t he table, and this would give that requirement a kind of wild card status
Michele Neylon:Applicable laws is saner
Holly Raiche:@Maxim - agree
Michele Neylon:As an Irish company we aren't going to base anything around Russian law
Lisa Phifer:@Maxim, it is possible to sort the list to look at possible requirements that come from a particular source (law)
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Michele, that is why I think it is a good idea just to mark thing being caused by some of laws and not to group by it
Sana Ali:Its a good idea Maxim.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Lisa it differs a lot from jurisdiction to jurisdiction ... different ideas on what to regulate
Lisa Phifer:@Maxim for example if you want to see all possible requirements from the Africa Union convention, just filter on "D31"
Lisa Phifer:If you want all from AU plus Ghana + South Africa, filter on D31+D38+D39.
Sana Ali: applicability based on jurisdiction is not really our place to determine...the outcome is going to be internationally applicable. doesnt matter about russiann or irish law. both are 'applicable'
Lisa Phifer:In other words, the coding lets you look at any combo you wish
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Lisa it is more complicated in Russia
stephanie perrin:There are intrinsic TBDF problems though, as for instance an EU citizen can shop globallly and will still be entitled to protection adn the defence of his DPA
stephanie perrin:This is why we need to harmonize up, not down
Sana Ali:yes, agreed
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Sana, the issue is, some Registries are outside of US, and thus the local law regulates what is going on there ... and it does not have to be international law ... but outcome affects users across the globe
stephanie perrin:Quite frankly the problem is that this is a juggernaut, with inherent built in contradictions. Any approach is bound to hit walls, and we need to reserve the right to object to various pieces when we hit a wall
Sana Ali:@Maxim, yes i am aware of this. I was responding to Michele about jursidictions being a determining factor in deciding whether laws are a"pplicable" to us or not.
Ayden Ferdeline:Hi @Maxim. It is not reasonable for us to be determining what is applicable in each and every territory. I would suggest that we need to decide on one standard to comply with - I would respectfully suggest, say, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU - and allow for compliance with local laws, where applicable.
stephanie perrin:I do feel like this working group feels like a round of bumper cars like we used to have at the cheap carnivals...
stephanie perrin:Any attempt to approach the problem feels like th rod that tied your car to the ceiling....
Ayden Ferdeline:* where there is a conflict (not where applicable)
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Adyen , I am not sure this approach would be seen ok in GAC :)
Farell FOLLY:+1 Maxime
Lisa Phifer:Nathalie Peregrine: Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw
Holly Raiche:@ Maxim - any suggestions?
stephanie perrin:certain members of the GAC, eg the observers from the COuncil of Europe, might be more sympathetic. Unfortunately, most GAC delegations do not have privacy and human rights experts on board.
Sana Ali:well the gac has an opportunity to comment, as do all other so/acs
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Holly - just to use "law" as a tag and not as a group
Sana Ali:should we really pre-empt their comments and shape our work accordingly
Sana Ali:(no)
Nathalie Peregrine:Remote Participation for GNSO sessions (and Cross Community sessions) for ICANN56 can be found here: https://community.icann.org/x/yCWOAw
Holly Raiche:@ Maxim - completely agree - I think I've already said that
Marika Konings:correct
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):GAC is more Telecom ministries than Internation Affairs, I think
Holly Raiche:@Maxim -there is a cerain logic in that
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):thus they might be more focused on technical part of things
Daniel K. Nanghaka:that's right GAC members are from ministries
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):than on Human rights
Rod Rasmussen:Week after is 4th of July in US, so lots of folks on vacation then that would be participating anyways, so good call to skip.
Sana Ali:1st of July in Canada
Sana Ali:;)
Rod Rasmussen:Yep, we did our own "Brexit" a while ago. :-)
Sana Ali:lol
stephanie perrin:We will find a way to celebrate!
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):safe flights
Chris Pelling:oh the brexit fun tmorrow!
Holly Raiche:See a lot of you there
Sana Ali:thank you Maxim and Chuck
stephanie perrin:Good luck on that Chris !
Chris Pelling:see you in Helsinki - safe travels :)
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:See you next week
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
Daniel K. Nanghaka:thanks
Sana Ali:see you next week!
Ayden Ferdeline:Thank you all. Safe travels to Helsinki
Fabricio Vayra:thnx
Farell FOLLY:bye all
Michele Neylon:ciao
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