[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call 22 June 2016 105:00 UTC
Greg Shatan
gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Wed Jun 22 15:03:39 UTC 2016
I will take any opportunity I have to agree with Kathy.
I agree with Kathy.
Greg
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
wrote:
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I am objecting. There is a real world going on. Children are graduating,
> people are preparing for travel, mothers (and fathers) are preparing for
> the upcoming trip. Normally WGs are in a quiet period this week: they don't
> put out bold new materials, they don't hold midnight meetings (or any
> meetings -- RPM WG canceled for this week).
>
> So let me be the first to share very strong objections to the procedural
> approach -- too much, too fast, too late. I apologize, but I have to raise
> this objection for all of us who are indeed doing this job as volunteers,
> and have a real world of jobs and families in the background.
>
> Let's stop and talk about these dramatic new approaches and new versions
> in Helsinki. I strongly object.
>
> Best, Kathy
>
> On 6/22/2016 9:34 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
>
> For those who were unable to participate in the this week’s WG call, I
> strongly encourage you listen to the recording before Friday. We spent a
> lot of time going over the latest version of the ‘*Possible approach to
> consensus in deliberation of possible requirements for RDS PDP WG*’ that
> I sent out about 3.5 hours before the WG meeting. As stated in the
> meeting, our goal is to ensure that the full WG is supportive of the
> approach before the Helsinki meetings. If we do not receive any strong
> objections by Friday, we will assume that we can proceed with this
> approach. Note that there were no objections expressed in the meeting.
>
>
>
> I reattached the latest approach document to make it easy to review it
> while listening to the recording.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Nathalie Peregrine
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:42 AM
> *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Cc:* gnso-secs at icann.org
> *Subject:* [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP
> WG call 22 June 2016 105:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3
> recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on
> Wednesday, 22 June 2016 at 05:00 UTC.
>
> *Mp3**:* http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-22jun16-en.mp3
> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-22jun16-en.mp3%A0>
> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-22jun16-en.mp3%A0>
> <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-14jun16-en.mp3>
>
> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO
> Master Calendar page:
>
> <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov>
> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
>
>
>
> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
>
>
>
> Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
>
>
>
> Wiki page: <https://community.icann.org/x/ix2OAw>
> https://community.icann.org/x/ix2OAw
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Nathalie
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> *Adobe Connect chat transcript for **Wednesday** 22 June 2016*
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the RDS PDP WG call on Wednesday
> 22 June 2016 at 5:00 UTC
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Morning everyone...
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Welcome!
>
> Chuck Gomes:Hello all.
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everyone
>
> Chuck Gomes:Welcome to your first WG call Maxim.
>
> Holly Raiche:Hello all
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):thanks
>
> stephanie perrin:not hearing anything, is that just me or is there
> nothing going on yet?
>
> stephanie perrin:thanks Chuck!
>
> Sana Ali:no
>
> Sana Ali:not nice
>
> Holly Raiche:It's a TERRIFIC time for the call
>
> Sana Ali::p
>
> stephanie perrin:No and I am at the kids to do baby duty.....so I will
> be typing not talking, as if I wake him I it will be my turn on deck....
>
> stephanie perrin:1 am for those of us in Toronto, Hi Sana!!
>
> Michele Neylon:I'm still on coffee number 1
>
> Sana Ali:Hello Stephanie!
>
> Michele Neylon:My new Japanese coffee making kit makes a nice coffee
> though
>
> Holly Raiche:@ Michele - we'llwait til you're on No. 2
>
> Chris Pelling:Good morning all
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB: two cups ahead of you Michele
>
> Michele Neylon:yummy coffee
> http://www.fat.ie/equipment/kalita-wave-coffee-dripper.html
>
> Susan Kawaguchi:@Stephanie is this a new grandchild?
>
> stephanie perrin:he is almost 9 months now Susan....still pretty new
> though!
>
> Susan Kawaguchi:9 months is a fun age!
>
> stephanie perrin:and so much more enjoyable as a grandmother!!
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):my SOI
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsosoi/Maxim+Alzoba+SOI
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:hello. can we please have scrolling enabled on this
> document. thanks
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Ayden sync is off
>
> Lisa Phifer:This document, and all others referenced during this call,
> can be found here:https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:gated access
>
> stephanie perrin:When do we figure out the purpose of the RDS and
> whether we need a new one?
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie purpose is one of the "big three" identified as
> the first topic of discussion in task 12
>
> Lisa Phifer:The foundational question of whether a new one is needed is
> after public comment on the first initial report
>
> stephanie perrin:Those are purposes of the data, not purpose of the
> collection use and dsiclosure of registration data, a far more fundamental
> question.
>
> stephanie perrin:data elements
>
> Sana Ali:yes important distinction stephanie
>
> stephanie perrin:Thanks Holly, I had indeed not seen it as I have been
> driving for 5 hours and I am taking this don't text and drive thing
> seriously.....
>
> stephanie perrin:very helpful
>
> Lisa Phifer:"volun-told"
>
> stephanie perrin:I still have outstanding requirements to send in.
>
> Susan Kawaguchi:sure
>
> stephanie perrin:Let me make a suggestion, recognizing the huge work
> already done. Could we have a section on legal requirements that cannot be
> broken? Such as constitutional requirements for due process and criminal
> procedure, human rights obligations, data retention restrictions, etc etc
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, there can certainly be a group for laws
>
> Lisa Phifer:currently we have one "applicable law"
>
> stephanie perrin:I guess it is a group....recognizing that there are
> numerous lens one could apply to this
>
> stephanie perrin:In other words, we cannot bury legal requirements in
> the possible requirements list. Complying with law is not a possible
> requirement, it is an obligation
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think it might be a good idea to use "applicable
> law" as a tag - due to some jurisdictional systems have different areas
> regulated e.t.c.
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):just to mark it as a reason for the question
>
> Susan Kawaguchi:We do have an applicable law group
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:good point @stephanie - i would like to see both a
> differentiation in this document between legal obligations and possible
> requirements
>
> Sana Ali:+1 stephanie
>
> Holly Raiche:Exactly my issue
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:Just a point of clarification, @Holly, an EU directive
> is a requirement on the member states to achieve a particular result.
>
> stephanie perrin:I think that is what I am driving at. Yes, some of us
> have signed on to both the Cybercrime convention, and convention 108. That
> becomes a legal obligation then, subject to applicable derogations, but it
> should be noted that a significant number of jurisdictions have overriding
> obligations (which they and their GAC members may or may not be acutely
> aware of)
>
> Holly Raiche:@ Stephanie -I understand tha, but the EU Directives are
> requirements on national entities to enact laws- and my point is that it's
> too hard to put things into a category call laws when requirements may be
> more orless binding
>
> stephanie perrin:I understand Holly, but regionally at least for the EU,
> it is useful to summarize via the Directive, and as long as the EU holds
> together after Thursday, the Regulation will clarify a lot.
>
> Alex Deacon:wouldn't the realm of all "legal obligations" be pretty
> huge? Maybe lets make sure we focus on relevant laws (??), and dont
> overwork ourselves....
>
> Holly Raiche:@ Alex - yes, it will be huge - BUT do we really want
> obligations (or varying 'binding' nature scatered across categories?
>
> Sana Ali: @Alex lets also not waste our work by lumping things in a way
> that obfuscates the importance of certain requirements over others.
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):obligations are relevant to registries/registrars
> of that particular jurisdiction they are based in ... so it is not going to
> be one size fits it all\
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):could we use legal requirement as a note and not
> as a group?
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:@Alex yes, this is a good point. we could make our work
> easier by deciding upon a standard by which to assess whether or not the
> RDS complies with, say, data privacy laws. we have to start somewhere
>
> stephanie perrin:I like that idea Maxim, could add a column to t he
> table, and this would give that requirement a kind of wild card status
>
> Michele Neylon:Applicable laws is saner
>
> Holly Raiche:@Maxim - agree
>
> Michele Neylon:As an Irish company we aren't going to base anything
> around Russian law
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Maxim, it is possible to sort the list to look at possible
> requirements that come from a particular source (law)
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Michele, that is why I think it is a good idea
> just to mark thing being caused by some of laws and not to group by it
>
> Sana Ali:Its a good idea Maxim.
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Lisa it differs a lot from jurisdiction to
> jurisdiction ... different ideas on what to regulate
>
> Lisa Phifer:@Maxim for example if you want to see all possible
> requirements from the Africa Union convention, just filter on "D31"
>
> Lisa Phifer:If you want all from AU plus Ghana + South Africa, filter on
> D31+D38+D39.
>
> Sana Ali: applicability based on jurisdiction is not really our place to
> determine...the outcome is going to be internationally applicable. doesnt
> matter about russiann or irish law. both are 'applicable'
>
> Lisa Phifer:In other words, the coding lets you look at any combo you
> wish
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Lisa it is more complicated in Russia
>
> stephanie perrin:There are intrinsic TBDF problems though, as for
> instance an EU citizen can shop globallly and will still be entitled to
> protection adn the defence of his DPA
>
> stephanie perrin:This is why we need to harmonize up, not down
>
> Sana Ali:yes, agreed
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Sana, the issue is, some Registries are outside
> of US, and thus the local law regulates what is going on there ... and it
> does not have to be international law ... but outcome affects users across
> the globe
>
> stephanie perrin:Quite frankly the problem is that this is a juggernaut,
> with inherent built in contradictions. Any approach is bound to hit walls,
> and we need to reserve the right to object to various pieces when we hit a
> wall
>
> Sana Ali:@Maxim, yes i am aware of this. I was responding to Michele
> about jursidictions being a determining factor in deciding whether laws are
> a"pplicable" to us or not.
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:Hi @Maxim. It is not reasonable for us to be determining
> what is applicable in each and every territory. I would suggest that we
> need to decide on one standard to comply with - I would respectfully
> suggest, say, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU - and allow for
> compliance with local laws, where applicable.
>
> stephanie perrin:I do feel like this working group feels like a round of
> bumper cars like we used to have at the cheap carnivals...
>
> stephanie perrin:Any attempt to approach the problem feels like th rod
> that tied your car to the ceiling....
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:* where there is a conflict (not where applicable)
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Adyen , I am not sure this approach would be seen
> ok in GAC :)
>
> Farell FOLLY:+1 Maxime
>
> Lisa Phifer:Nathalie Peregrine: Agenda page:
> <https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw>https://community.icann.org/x/iyCOAw
>
> Holly Raiche:@ Maxim - any suggestions?
>
> stephanie perrin:certain members of the GAC, eg the observers from the
> COuncil of Europe, might be more sympathetic. Unfortunately, most GAC
> delegations do not have privacy and human rights experts on board.
>
> Sana Ali:well the gac has an opportunity to comment, as do all other
> so/acs
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Holly - just to use "law" as a tag and not as a
> group
>
> Sana Ali:should we really pre-empt their comments and shape our work
> accordingly
>
> Sana Ali:(no)
>
> Nathalie Peregrine:Remote Participation for GNSO sessions (and Cross
> Community sessions) for ICANN56 can be found here:
> https://community.icann.org/x/yCWOAw
>
> Holly Raiche:@ Maxim - completely agree - I think I've already said that
>
> Marika Konings:correct
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):GAC is more Telecom ministries than Internation
> Affairs, I think
>
> Holly Raiche:@Maxim -there is a cerain logic in that
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):thus they might be more focused on technical part
> of things
>
> Daniel K. Nanghaka:that's right GAC members are from ministries
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):than on Human rights
>
> Rod Rasmussen:Week after is 4th of July in US, so lots of folks on
> vacation then that would be participating anyways, so good call to skip.
>
> Sana Ali:1st of July in Canada
>
> Sana Ali:;)
>
> Rod Rasmussen:Yep, we did our own "Brexit" a while ago. :-)
>
> Sana Ali:lol
>
> stephanie perrin:We will find a way to celebrate!
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):safe flights
>
> Chris Pelling:oh the brexit fun tmorrow!
>
> Holly Raiche:See a lot of you there
>
> Sana Ali:thank you Maxim and Chuck
>
> stephanie perrin:Good luck on that Chris !
>
> Chris Pelling:see you in Helsinki - safe travels :)
>
> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:See you next week
>
> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
>
> Daniel K. Nanghaka:thanks
>
> Sana Ali:see you next week!
>
> Ayden Ferdeline:Thank you all. Safe travels to Helsinki
>
> Fabricio Vayra:thnx
>
> Farell FOLLY:bye all
>
> Michele Neylon:ciao
>
>
>
>
>
>
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