[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contractibility, PBC and required contact methods....

Thu Aug 24 18:28:36 UTC 2017

Piling on here to (1) support Alex's initial thread/concerns, and (2) echo what others are saying about legal processes requiring more than email.  Fundamentally, an email address tells you nothing, so (even assuming you could provide substituted service by email), how are you to know what court to approach in the first place.  Or what law applies to the potential dispute.  Or whether there's a dispute at all.

My point being that (without getting into the weeds) what we are highlighting here is that "contactability" means more than the mere ability to send and receive a message, and in cases of legal jurisprudence, contract, etc., "contactability" is highly dependent on factors (e.g., jurisdiction) that are only born out from things like physical address.

In sum, and as others have been saying, reducing WHOIS down to minimal contact methods (i.e., email) simply won't work to sustain the DNS and all its uses.   Unless we want registrants to miss out on due process, etc., I think we should carefully consider what Alex has raised.

Thanks,

Fabricio Vayra
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From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Winterfeldt, Brian J.
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 2:04 PM
To: Jeremy Malcolm
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contractibility, PBC and required contact methods....

Dear all:

We agree it is helpful to keep in mind the point of view that contactability is synonymous with the legal concept of service of process.  However, in the United States there is no firm rule regarding the validity of an email address for this purpose.  Contact information needs to be "reasonably calculated, under all the circumstances, to apprise Defendants of the pendency of [an] action and afford them an opportunity to present their objections." See Liberty Media Holdings, LLC v. March 2011 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 5290 (S.D. Cal. Jan. 19, 2011).

Outside of the United States, email by itself is even more unreliable since each particular country may not have acceded to the Hague Convention governing service of process, and, even if they have, exceptions might explicitly carve still out email addresses.

Thus, we believe it in the best interests of all good actors in the ecosystem to have multiple methods of contactability, including (most importantly) a street address, in addition to an email address.  We could theoretically forego contactability in this regard, if registrants are required to designate an agent for service of process, or if contracted parties would prefer the unnecessary inclusion in legal actions where no service of process can be made on the underlying registrants, or the otherwise directly responsible parties.

Thank you,

Brian, Phil and Griffin

Brian J. Winterfeldt
Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice
Mayer Brown LLP

On Aug 24, 2017, at 1:31 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org<mailto:jmalcolm at eff.org>> wrote:
On 24/8/17 9:15 am, Greg Aaron wrote:

Two WG calls ago, we had extensive discussion about how legal processes require multiple methods of contactability.  And require physical addresses, not just electronic service.

I missed that call, but it's not quite accurate since a court can order substituted service by email.  Even publishing a notice in the newspaper can be used for service if the court allows it.

In any case, I agree with Volker that there should not be three mandatory contact methods.  Physical and/or email address should be enough.

--

Jeremy Malcolm

Senior Global Policy Analyst

Electronic Frontier Foundation

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