[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose
theo geurts
gtheo at xs4all.nl
Sun Jan 22 21:33:45 UTC 2017
Correct.
Perhaps the folks on this list want to observe how Eurid treats Thick
WHOIS data as Greg mentioned.
https://whois.eurid.eu/en/?domain=vwl.eu
That is one of my domain names.
Best regards,
Theo
On 22-1-2017 22:16, Greg Aaron wrote:
>
> Shane, you said that “with regards to ‘thin data’ is that we need
> *some* purpose for both gathering and publishing the information,
> because otherwise privacy laws may prohibit companies from gathering
> or publishing it.”
>
> You may be making an erroneous assumption. AFAIK, thin data is not
> protected by privacy laws. Generally, privacy laws are designed to
> protect personally identifiable information, and not all types of
> information. Privacy laws allow the _/collection/_ personal
> information for legitimate purposes. Privacy laws are not designed
> to prohibit the _/publication/_ of non-personally-identifiable
> information.
>
> This is why ccTLDs in countries with strong privacy laws (such as in
> the EU) DO collect and publish thin data in their WHOIS systems They
> do it because it’s allowed, and because there are legitimate reasons
> to collect AND publish it.
>
> And sometimes they publish thick data. For example you will see
> registrant and contact information below. That’s published because
> companies are not individuals.
>
> All best,
>
> --Greg
>
> Domain name:
>
> virgin.co.uk
>
> Registrant:
>
> Virgin Enterprises Limited
>
> Registrant type:
>
> Unknown
>
> Registrant's address:
>
> The Battleship Building
>
> 179 Harrow Road
>
> London
>
> EN
>
> W2 6NB
>
> United Kingdom
>
> Data validation:
>
> Nominet was able to match the registrant's name and address against a
> 3rd party data source on 21-Apr-2015
>
> Registrar:
>
> Corporation Service Company (UK) Limited [Tag = CSC-CORP-DOMAINS]
>
> URL: http://www.cscprotectsbrands.com
>
> Relevant dates:
>
> Registered on: before Aug-1996
>
> Expiry date: 07-Nov-2017
>
> Last updated: 03-Nov-2015
>
> Registration status:
>
> Registered until expiry date.
>
> Name servers:
>
> a4.nstld.com
>
> f4.nstld.com
>
> g4.nstld.com
>
> h4.nstld.com
>
> j4.nstld.com
>
> k4.nstld.com
>
> l4.nstld.com
>
> Domain name: virgin.ca
>
> Domain status: registered
>
> Creation date: 2001/01/31
>
> Expiry date: 2017/03/10
>
> Updated date: 2015/02/02
>
> DNSSEC: Unsigned
>
> Registrar:
>
> Name: CSC Corporate Domains (Canada) Company
>
> Number: 2397937
>
> Registrant:
>
> Name: Virgin Enterprises Limited TMA 383374
>
> Administrative contact:
>
> Name: Ms Victoria Carrington
>
> Postal address: 112 Kent Street, Suite 2001
>
> Ottawa ON K1P 5P2 Canada
>
> Phone: 1 613 2325300
>
> Fax: 1 613 5639231
>
> Email: email at shapirocohen.com
>
> Technical contact:
>
> Name: Russell Berman
>
> Postal address: The School House
>
> 50 Brook Green
>
> London EN W6 7RR United Kingdom
>
> Phone: +44.2073132000
>
> Fax: +44.2031263608
>
> Email: email at virgin.com
>
> Name servers:
>
> a4.nstld.com
>
> f4.nstld.com
>
> g4.nstld.com
>
> h4.nstld.com
>
> j4.nstld.com
>
> k4.nstld.com
>
> l4.nstld.com
>
> domain: virgin.fr
>
> status: ACTIVE
>
> hold: NO
>
> holder-c: VEL21-FRNIC
>
> admin-c: RD2263-FRNIC
>
> tech-c: DA4698-FRNIC
>
> zone-c: NFC1-FRNIC
>
> nsl-id: NSL17525-FRNIC
>
> registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS INC.
>
> Expiry Date: 11/12/2017
>
> created: 28/06/1995
>
> last-update: 07/12/2016
>
> source: FRNIC
>
> ns-list: NSL17525-FRNIC
>
> nserver: a4.nstld.com
>
> nserver: f4.nstld.com
>
> nserver: g4.nstld.com
>
> nserver: h4.nstld.com
>
> nserver: j4.nstld.com
>
> nserver: k4.nstld.com
>
> nserver: l4.nstld.com
>
> source: FRNIC
>
> registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS INC.
>
> type: Isp Option 1
>
> address: 2711 Centerville Road, Suite 400
>
> address: DE 19808 WILMINGTON
>
> country: US
>
> phone: +1 302 636 5401
>
> fax-no: +1 302 636 5454
>
> e-mail: email at cscinfo.com
>
> website: http://www.csccorporatedomains.com
>
> anonymous: NO
>
> registered: 17/10/2006
>
> source: FRNIC
>
> nic-hdl: VEL21-FRNIC
>
> type: ORGANIZATION
>
> contact: Virgin Enterprises Ltd.
>
> address: 120 Campden Hill Road
>
> address: W6 7RR London
>
> country: GB
>
> phone: +44 2073132000
>
> fax-no: +44 2031263610
>
> e-mail: email at virgin.com
>
> registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS INC.
>
> changed: 03/10/2012 email at nic.fr
>
> anonymous: NO
>
> obsoleted: NO
>
> eligstatus: ok
>
> eligsource: REGISTRAR
>
> eligdate: 03/10/2012 21:10:50
>
> source: FRNIC
>
> nic-hdl: RD2263-FRNIC
>
> type: PERSON
>
> contact: Rebecca Delorey
>
> address: Partner/Avocat associe
>
> address: Gilbey Delorey 69 rue de Richelieu
>
> address: 75002 Paris
>
> country: FR
>
> phone: +33 1 56 02 62 00
>
> fax-no: +33 1 56 02 62 10
>
> e-mail: email at gilbeydehaas.com
>
> registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS INC.
>
> changed: 08/09/2010 email at nic.fr
>
> anonymous: NO
>
> obsoleted: NO
>
> source: FRNIC
>
> nic-hdl: DA4698-FRNIC
>
> type: PERSON
>
> contact: Domain Administrator
>
> address: Virgin Enterprises Ltd.
>
> address: The School House
>
> address: 50 Brook Green
>
> address: W6 7RR London EN
>
> country: GB
>
> phone: +44 2073132000
>
> fax-no: +44 2031263608
>
> e-mail: email at virgin.com
>
> registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS INC.
>
> changed: 26/09/2011 email at nic.fr
>
> anonymous: NO
>
> obsoleted: NO
>
> source: FRNIC
>
> City: Augustfehn I
>
> CountryCode: DE
>
> Phone: +49 4489 941030
>
> Fax: +49 4489 9410369
>
> Email: email at kataplonk.de
>
> Changed: 2013-08-03T15:21:00+02:00
>
> **********************************
>
> Greg Aaron
>
> Vice-President, Product Management
>
> iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
>
> mobile: +1.215.858.2257
>
> **********************************
>
> The information contained in this message is privileged and
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>
> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2017 1:33 PM
> *To:* Shane Kerr <shane at time-travellers.org>
> *Cc:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose
>
> Shane,
>
> First, I would say that all legitimate purposes need to be catered
> for, so I don't think we can agree there. :-(
>
> Second, I think the garbage can top analogy illustrates the difference
> between purpose and use. It is not a legitimate purpose of a garbage
> can top to be used as a sled, even if it is a potential use. (I don't
> think we can say that it is a legitimate use either, but hopefully we
> don't have to parse that issue, at least not yet. In college, we used
> to sled down the hill in the middle of campus on cafeteria trays (from
> the cafeteria conveniently located near the top of the hill. This was
> definitely not a legitimate purpose of those sleds. We students may
> have thought this was a legitimate use of the trays, but I doubt this
> view was shared by cafeteria staff or university administration. Or
> maybe we thought it was an illegitimate use, which made it more
> exciting (it's been a while...).)
>
> I share your view that the need for the information is indisputable --
> so we can agree there. :-)
>
> Nonetheless, I think there are good reasons that it is important to
> identify the legitimate purposes of the data is collected, and to
> accommodate those purposes. Indeed, this is one of the essential
> purposes of this Working Group.
>
> Greg
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 4:03 AM, Shane Kerr <shane at time-travellers.org
> <mailto:shane at time-travellers.org>> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> If we can say that not all legitimate purposes have to be catered for,
> then I agree with you. :)
>
> If we say that tracking down the registrar of a domain as part of
> trademark research is a legitimate purpose, that does not mean that we
> have to design the system for this purpose, right?
>
> To try an analogy: We can recognize that using the plastic top of a
> garbage can as a sled is legitimate, but we don't insist on designing
> lids with sledding in mind.
>
> Full disclosure: My own take on the "legitimate purpose" discussion
> with regards to "thin data" is that we need *some* purpose for both
> gathering and publishing the information, because otherwise privacy
> laws may prohibit companies from gathering or publishing it. Luckily I
> think that there are so many such purposes that the need for the
> information is indisputable.
>
> Jumping ahead... as I said in a prior call (sorry for missing ones
> since
> then), I would prefer that the information is then allowed for any
> purpose, without restriction, because otherwise you have to have not
> only tiresome rules about what is allowed but also the Internet Police
> to enforce those rules, which seems like a step towards Armageddon.
>
> Given that we're still talking about "thin data", which is basically
> just a pointer to a registrar who has *actual* data, my own
> recommendation is not to stress too much. This stuff is only very,
> very
> vaguely personally identifiable.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Shane
>
> At 2017-01-21 14:51:29 -0500
> Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
> <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > I have to disagree. These are legitimate purposes for
> collection, as well
> > as for disclosure.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Stephanie Perrin <
> > stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
> >
> > > I filled it out, but I am afraid for most of the purposes I
> could not
> > > agree. We do not *collect *data for many of those purposes.
> We disclose
> > > it to people for those purposes, but the purpose of collecting
> those data
> > > elements is not for tax collection, trademark enforcement
> actions, etc.
> > > This is the conflation issue I have raised repeatedly.
> > >
> > > Apologies if I did not make that point clear enough on the call.
> > >
> > > Stephanie Perrin
> > >
> > > On 2017-01-20 17:35, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
> > >
> > > Please note that our current poll ends in about 24 hours. So
> far only 16
> > > people have responded.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg- <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg->
> > > bounces at icann.org <mailto:bounces at icann.org>
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Lisa
> > > Phifer
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2017 1:50 PM
> > > *To:* RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> > > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January
> Poll on
> > > Purpose
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > As directed in the 18 January WG call, this week's new Poll on
> Purpose is
> > > now open for WG member participation:
> > >
> > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/SZX9QJZ
> > >
> > > A PDF of this poll's questions and notes/recordings of the
> meeting are
> > > posted on the 18 January meeting page:
> https://community.icann.org/x/ <https://community.icann.org/x/>
> > > EbTDAw
> > >
> > > This poll will close at *COB Saturday 21 January 2017*.
> > >
> > > All WG members are encouraged to participate in this poll to
> help advance
> > > deliberation and prepare for next week's meeting.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Lisa
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing
> listgnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <http://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> > > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> > >
>
>
>
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