[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Thu Jan 26 08:49:14 UTC 2017


No argument from me on that.  None.  Not sure why you keep bringing it 
up. Shall we just stop now?  I will stop intervening.

SP


On 2017-01-26 03:36, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>
> Stephanie
>
> Ok that’s simple.
>
> If you want a domain name to resolve on the internet you need certain 
> data elements to be available to everyone.
>
> That’s a technical reality.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.host/
>
> http://blacknight.blog /
>
> http://ceo.hosting/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business 
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> *Date: *Thursday 26 January 2017 at 04:26
> *To: *John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>, Michele Neylon 
> <michele at blacknight.com>
> *Cc: *Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck at verisign.com>, Sam Lanfranco 
> <sam at lanfranco.net>, "dave at davecake.net" <dave at davecake.net>, 
> "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose
>
> I am not sure how we get to this discussion. What I am saying, is that 
> the purpose of collecting data has to be linked to ICANN's core 
> mission.  AS Peter said a while ago, is the core mission to enable law 
> enforcement investigations? No.  It is a legitimate purpose to use or 
> disclose limited sets of data as required in accordance with law, but 
> it is not the reason we collect or generate thin data.  This 
> distinction is important in data protection law.  Nobody is saying we 
> should not disclose the thin data, including name servers.  What we 
> are trying to say, and obviously with very little success, is that 
> several of the purposes for collecting thin data which were in the 
> last poll, were not related to ICANN's core mission.  They might be 
> legitimate disclosures of data, but they are not legitimate purposes 
> to collect.
>
> Displaying data in WHOIS is a disclosure.  We are not supposed to be 
> talking about that yet.  We keep conflating the legitimacy of 
> collection, and why we gather or generate data elements about a domain 
> name, and disclosure.
>
> Sorry to keep hammering on this, but it is a very simple concept that 
> is fundamental to data protection. No wonder we have been arguing 
> about this for 18 years.....
>
> cheers Stephanie
>
> On 2017-01-25 21:06, John Bambenek wrote:
>
>     Regardless of the privacy implications, if someone who wants to
>     look up a hostname and can't find can't figure out what the
>     authoritative nameservers are for the domain, DNS quite simply
>     will not work and with it the internet is down; go home.
>
>     Unless someone is suggesting we completely re-architect DNS,
>     having nameservers tied to domain records is absolutely essential.
>
>     You could deprecate displaying it in whois but any DNS client
>     would easily be able to retrieve the data because the resolver
>     still has to know what to ask for.
>
>     J
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>     On Jan 25, 2017, at 16:08, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>     <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
>         Stephanie
>
>         Do you have any links to any legislation / regulations etc.,
>         that are this broad?
>
>         And honestly I don’t see how a set of nameserver is
>         “personally identifiable” unless you’re using your own name in
>         the hostname (which you could, but then I’d see that as your
>         choice and not a technical requirement)
>
>         Regards
>
>
>         Michele
>
>         --
>
>         Mr Michele Neylon
>
>         Blacknight Solutions
>
>         Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
>         http://www.blacknight.host/
>
>         http://blacknight.blog/
>
>         http://ceo.hosting/
>
>         Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
>         Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
>         -------------------------------
>
>         Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
>         Business Park,Sleaty
>
>         Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>
>         Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
>         *From: *Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>         <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>
>         *Date: *Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 19:40
>         *To: *Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com
>         <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>, Scott Hollenbeck
>         <shollenbeck at verisign.com <mailto:shollenbeck at verisign.com>>,
>         Sam Lanfranco <sam at lanfranco.net <mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>>,
>         "dave at davecake.net <mailto:dave at davecake.net>"
>         <dave at davecake.net <mailto:dave at davecake.net>>
>         *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>         <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>         <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>         *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on
>         Purpose
>
>         Unfortunately, in a world where the Internet of things is
>         taking off, privacy advocates and authorities have to insist
>         that data generated by or as a result of the actions of an
>         individual or his devices(eg metadata, timestamping, etc) has
>         to be considered as personal information.  If it is used to
>         describe processes pertaining to that information, if it could
>         be used to incriminate that individual, it is important that
>         it be recognized as information for which individuals have
>         rights.  Otherwise, we have a situation where the individual
>         has no right to access information that may impact him, may
>         incriminate him, but to which he may be utterly oblivious. 
>         Sorry it is such a pain in the neck, but there we are.
>
>         Stephanie
>
>         On 2017-01-25 12:32, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>
>             Scott
>
>             Sure, but if we go down that route we could make cases for
>             a lot of things J
>
>             My main problem with this entire debacle is that the data
>             we’re dealing with is pretty much useless and isn’t
>             personally identifiable.
>
>             Regards
>
>             Michele
>
>             --
>
>             Mr Michele Neylon
>
>             Blacknight Solutions
>
>             Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
>             https://www.blacknight.com/
>
>             http://blacknight.blog/
>
>             Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
>             Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
>             Social: http://mneylon.social
>
>             Some thoughts: http://ceo.hosting/
>
>             -------------------------------
>
>             Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
>             Business Park,Sleaty
>
>             Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.:
>             370845
>
>             *From: *Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck at verisign.com>
>             <mailto:shollenbeck at verisign.com>
>             *Date: *Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 17:15
>             *To: *Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com>
>             <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>, Stephanie Perrin
>             <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>             <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>, Sam Lanfranco
>             <sam at lanfranco.net> <mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>,
>             "dave at davecake.net" <mailto:dave at davecake.net>
>             <dave at davecake.net> <mailto:dave at davecake.net>
>             *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org"
>             <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>             <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>             *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll
>             on Purpose
>
>             *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>             <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>             [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
>             *Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>             *Sent:* Wednesday, January 25, 2017 12:09 PM
>             *To:* Stephanie Perrin; Sam Lanfranco; David Cake
>             *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>             <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>             *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18
>             January Poll on Purpose
>
>             Stephanie
>
>             Sorry, but policy + the technology go hand in hand. You
>             cannot completely separate them and any policy that this
>             (or any other) group produces needs to be technically
>             possible to implement.
>
>             As to the specifics ..
>
>             I would argue that generated data is NOT collected, as
>             it’s generated.
>
>             If you register stephanieperrin.com
>             <http://stephanieperrin.com> with us the only elements we
>             are “collecting” that end up in in the “thin” data are:
>
>             the domain name string
>
>             the nameservers you’re using (and if you don’t specify any
>             we’ll use our own)
>
>             All the other elements are NOT collected by the registrar
>             or even the registry from the registrant, they are
>             generated as part of the process of the domain being
>             registered.
>
>             [SAH] Michele, some might argue that the registration
>             period is also collected from the registrant and is then
>             used to generate the expiration date at the registry. A
>             case might also be made for status values like
>             clientTransferProhibited etc. I agree completely that
>             generated data is just that – generated.
>
>             Scott
>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
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>
>
>

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