[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose
Stephanie Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Thu Jan 26 08:49:14 UTC 2017
No argument from me on that. None. Not sure why you keep bringing it
up. Shall we just stop now? I will stop intervening.
SP
On 2017-01-26 03:36, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>
> Stephanie
>
> Ok that’s simple.
>
> If you want a domain name to resolve on the internet you need certain
> data elements to be available to everyone.
>
> That’s a technical reality.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.host/
>
> http://blacknight.blog /
>
> http://ceo.hosting/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> *Date: *Thursday 26 January 2017 at 04:26
> *To: *John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>, Michele Neylon
> <michele at blacknight.com>
> *Cc: *Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck at verisign.com>, Sam Lanfranco
> <sam at lanfranco.net>, "dave at davecake.net" <dave at davecake.net>,
> "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose
>
> I am not sure how we get to this discussion. What I am saying, is that
> the purpose of collecting data has to be linked to ICANN's core
> mission. AS Peter said a while ago, is the core mission to enable law
> enforcement investigations? No. It is a legitimate purpose to use or
> disclose limited sets of data as required in accordance with law, but
> it is not the reason we collect or generate thin data. This
> distinction is important in data protection law. Nobody is saying we
> should not disclose the thin data, including name servers. What we
> are trying to say, and obviously with very little success, is that
> several of the purposes for collecting thin data which were in the
> last poll, were not related to ICANN's core mission. They might be
> legitimate disclosures of data, but they are not legitimate purposes
> to collect.
>
> Displaying data in WHOIS is a disclosure. We are not supposed to be
> talking about that yet. We keep conflating the legitimacy of
> collection, and why we gather or generate data elements about a domain
> name, and disclosure.
>
> Sorry to keep hammering on this, but it is a very simple concept that
> is fundamental to data protection. No wonder we have been arguing
> about this for 18 years.....
>
> cheers Stephanie
>
> On 2017-01-25 21:06, John Bambenek wrote:
>
> Regardless of the privacy implications, if someone who wants to
> look up a hostname and can't find can't figure out what the
> authoritative nameservers are for the domain, DNS quite simply
> will not work and with it the internet is down; go home.
>
> Unless someone is suggesting we completely re-architect DNS,
> having nameservers tied to domain records is absolutely essential.
>
> You could deprecate displaying it in whois but any DNS client
> would easily be able to retrieve the data because the resolver
> still has to know what to ask for.
>
> J
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2017, at 16:08, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
> <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
> Stephanie
>
> Do you have any links to any legislation / regulations etc.,
> that are this broad?
>
> And honestly I don’t see how a set of nameserver is
> “personally identifiable” unless you’re using your own name in
> the hostname (which you could, but then I’d see that as your
> choice and not a technical requirement)
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.host/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> http://ceo.hosting/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
> Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>
> Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>
> *Date: *Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 19:40
> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com
> <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>, Scott Hollenbeck
> <shollenbeck at verisign.com <mailto:shollenbeck at verisign.com>>,
> Sam Lanfranco <sam at lanfranco.net <mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>>,
> "dave at davecake.net <mailto:dave at davecake.net>"
> <dave at davecake.net <mailto:dave at davecake.net>>
> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on
> Purpose
>
> Unfortunately, in a world where the Internet of things is
> taking off, privacy advocates and authorities have to insist
> that data generated by or as a result of the actions of an
> individual or his devices(eg metadata, timestamping, etc) has
> to be considered as personal information. If it is used to
> describe processes pertaining to that information, if it could
> be used to incriminate that individual, it is important that
> it be recognized as information for which individuals have
> rights. Otherwise, we have a situation where the individual
> has no right to access information that may impact him, may
> incriminate him, but to which he may be utterly oblivious.
> Sorry it is such a pain in the neck, but there we are.
>
> Stephanie
>
> On 2017-01-25 12:32, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>
> Scott
>
> Sure, but if we go down that route we could make cases for
> a lot of things J
>
> My main problem with this entire debacle is that the data
> we’re dealing with is pretty much useless and isn’t
> personally identifiable.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Social: http://mneylon.social
>
> Some thoughts: http://ceo.hosting/
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
> Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.:
> 370845
>
> *From: *Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck at verisign.com>
> <mailto:shollenbeck at verisign.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 17:15
> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com>
> <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>, Stephanie Perrin
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>, Sam Lanfranco
> <sam at lanfranco.net> <mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>,
> "dave at davecake.net" <mailto:dave at davecake.net>
> <dave at davecake.net> <mailto:dave at davecake.net>
> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org"
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll
> on Purpose
>
> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Michele Neylon - Blacknight
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 25, 2017 12:09 PM
> *To:* Stephanie Perrin; Sam Lanfranco; David Cake
> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18
> January Poll on Purpose
>
> Stephanie
>
> Sorry, but policy + the technology go hand in hand. You
> cannot completely separate them and any policy that this
> (or any other) group produces needs to be technically
> possible to implement.
>
> As to the specifics ..
>
> I would argue that generated data is NOT collected, as
> it’s generated.
>
> If you register stephanieperrin.com
> <http://stephanieperrin.com> with us the only elements we
> are “collecting” that end up in in the “thin” data are:
>
> the domain name string
>
> the nameservers you’re using (and if you don’t specify any
> we’ll use our own)
>
> All the other elements are NOT collected by the registrar
> or even the registry from the registrant, they are
> generated as part of the process of the domain being
> registered.
>
> [SAH] Michele, some might argue that the registration
> period is also collected from the registrant and is then
> used to generate the expiration date at the registry. A
> case might also be made for status values like
> clientTransferProhibited etc. I agree completely that
> generated data is just that – generated.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
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