[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Contactability
theo geurts
gtheo at xs4all.nl
Tue Nov 28 20:11:16 UTC 2017
Agreed Kris,
Thanks, Allison, though this is, I guess, the cold hard truth, selling
domains dirt cheap or giving them away is a sure method to poison a TLD,
I think it is a separate issue when discussing RDS.
And the examples are clear, and at a point, such TLD operators need to
re-think their business model and act accordingly to keep their TLD alive.
So in May 2018, we will see a lot of use of the privacy services due to
the GDPR, I guess mostly at a Registrar level, but let's not rule out
that it might be on a Registry level, the dynamics here are shifting day
by day.
So my question here, and I hope we can discuss this in good faith, but
it seems to me that the WHOIS will be an irrelevant factor when it comes
to the risk/reputation score?
How does/will that play out?
And yes, this is not exactly related to our work when it comes to RDS,
but since we have the expertise here, I think it would be useful to
explore this a little more even though off topic. I hope the leadership
team allows this to get a better understanding, for the community on
what is going down and might happen in a just a few months here.
And if we need to do this offlist, sure, no problem. I am just trying to
get a sense to here to comply with the law and keep a business running.
Thanks
Theo
On 28-11-2017 20:57, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
>
> Full agreement on this point
>
>
> On 11/28/2017 01:30 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote:
>> As we move on …one way or the other the GDPR and other aligned
>> privacy laws will catch up eventually. We will need to find levels
>> and technical ways and reasons to get things to work. We move to
>> RDAPis fine as we look ahead but we should be able to not only look
>> at the laws that we need to respect but also to find technical ways
>> to get and make sure things still continue towork. As this stage
>> personally both are as important.
>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 23:15, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Most systems operators are not afraid to block entire TLDs. While
>>> there are no scientific studies out on this matter AFAIK, the help
>>> forums are littered with people asking how to block entire TLDs, and
>>> also registrants on those TLDs asking why everyone is blocking them.
>>> It's enough to conclusively say this is already an issue, and we can
>>> thank abuse for this.
>>>
>>> In this Reddit post, a user learns the hard truth about his brand
>>> new XYZ domain:
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/6jq6f5/getting_blocked_should_i_abandon_my_xyz_domain/
>>>
>>> This article discusses Facebook's block of all XYZ domains:
>>> http://adamyamada.com/facebook-blocks-xyz-domains-new-domains-pages/
>>>
>>> This Malwarebytes staff member explains to a legitimate registrant
>>> that all .SCIENCE TLDs are blocked and he gets no exception:
>>> https://forums.malwarebytes.com/topic/173535-all-my-science-domains-blocked/
>>>
>>> In fact, the Malwarebytes "false positive" forum is littered with
>>> owners of hacked domains that discovered their problem because of a
>>> block, not because of a notification:
>>> https://forums.malwarebytes.com/forum/123-website-blocking/
>>>
>>> This user asks for an 'Existing list of garbage "new" TLDs' to block
>>> https://vamsoft.com/forum/topic/597/existing-list-of-garbage-new-tlds
>>>
>>> There are 179 Google search results for people asking Microsoft's
>>> help service for ways to block entire TLDs:
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+i+block+TLD+site:answers.microsoft.com
>>>
>>> There are 72,500 Google search results for "how to block" "tld":
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=%22how+to+block%22+%22tld%22
>>>
>>> The Internet is effectively "broken" for any legitimate registrants
>>> on these TLDs.
>>>
>>> As a seller of some of those same TLDs, should you be concerned if
>>> your customers purchase domains rendered useless due to blocking?
>>> Would you actually refund a customer if they told you they couldn't
>>> use the domain for e-mail due to the TLD?
>>> Would you warn your prospective .XYZ, .STUDY, .PRESS, .PARTY, etc,
>>> customers that they should not use the domains for e-mail?
>>> When ICANN releases new gTLDs in the future, do you think that those
>>> domains will ever be able to send e-mail?
>>>
>>> Truly, the rest of the world will be fine. The more that ICANN has
>>> the "not my problem" attitude, the more the rest of the world is
>>> going to push back. ICANN seems to have lost the ability to release
>>> new gTLDs without severe connectivity issues, so we also need to ask
>>> the question: "why are these guys selling the digital equivalent of
>>> the scarlet letter and not warning their customers beforehand?"
>>>
>>> I think the question of selling defective products is one that needs
>>> to be addressed more seriously by regulators and outside parties.
>>>
>>> I can also tell you that security vendors are already looking into
>>> other anti-abuse techniques for domains post-WHOIS, and I can also
>>> tell you that they will result in an increase in the percentage of
>>> legitimate domains that are blocked. This is your problem now.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Volker Greimann
>>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> re:hotbed I was rather intending to ask whether there is a
>>> direct correllation between TLDs with redacted whois and issues
>>> that go unresolved. So do you have more unresolved issues in
>>> .co.uk <http://co.uk/> than in .com (if numbers are normalized
>>> for registered domain names).
>>>
>>> I am sure no one would consider blocking the entire mail traffic
>>> originating from the United Kingdom Top Level Domain just
>>> because you cannot resolve some issues in a few domains, correct?
>>>
>>> So if everyone followed their (or a similar) model, the internet
>>> would not break. Some issues would get harder to solve (or take
>>> longer). I am asking because that is what most likely will
>>> happen on May 25 or sooner.
>>>
>>> Volker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 28.11.2017 um 18:27 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 04:31:56PM +0100, Volker Greimann wrote:
>>>
>>> case of internet operability issues. While I appreciate
>>> that there can be
>>> issues that would necessitate the ability to quickly
>>> contact whoever can fix
>>> the issue, I wonder how this problem is solved in TLDs
>>> where whois is
>>> already redacted.
>>>
>>> It's not. In that case, if I am the one who has this
>>> experience and I
>>> can't reach the target, then the problem goes unresolved.
>>> In mail
>>> cases, as John suggests elsewhere in this thread, the answer
>>> is very
>>> likely that mail is blocked. People seem surprised these
>>> days that
>>> mail is so fragile, but this sort of thing is part of the
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> So how does it work there? Are these TLDs hotbeds of DNS
>>> issues and
>>> unresolved problems?
>>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by "hotbed", or whether that is
>>> intended to
>>> be dismissive. Some TLDs defintely have more DNS problems than
>>> others. Given how hard the DNS works to make connections
>>> happen even
>>> when things are badly misconfigured, lots of stuff will work
>>> to some
>>> extent even when it is badly configured. But DNS operations
>>> people
>>> trade stories about problems amongst themselves, after
>>> giving up on
>>> sites because whois can't help and the mname in the SOA
>>> record is
>>> broken. I find this happens more often than you might expect.
>>>
>>> But yes, there are broken domains on the Internet. I find
>>> it hard to
>>> believe that would be even slightly remarkable.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> A
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kris Seeburn
>> seeburn.k at gmail.com <mailto:seeburn.k at gmail.com>
>>
>> *
>>
>> www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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