[gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

Tue Apr 11 16:08:36 UTC 2017

George:  The evidence that is missing is evidence of the effect on non-trademark owners of Sunrise registrations.  As to gaming of the Sunrise situations, I would consider these to be evidence of a need for review of the TMCH registration process and requirements -- not evidence of free speech incursions.

Michael R.

-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of George Kirikos
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 7:00 AM
To: Jon Nevett <jon at donuts.co>
Cc: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

Since Donuts is calling into question the Flowers.delivery example (and there are other TLDs operated by Donuts where Flowers.TLD is registered by 1-800-Flowers.com), let's pick a registry not operated by Donuts, namely .miami (operated by Minds+Machines).

Timeline of Launch:

https://comlaude.com/news/new-gtld-updates-miami-launch-schedule

Sunrise Period Closed: 18-Sep-15 (16:00 UTC) Sunrise Type: End Date Sunrise (not first-come, first served) **(implies all domains got created after sunrise, but before launch of General Availability) General Availability: 02-Oct-15 (16:00 UTC)

Please note that there will be no Landrush phase for this TLD.

https://whois.domaintools.com/flowers.miami

Creation Date: 2015-09-28T17:38:01Z

(registrant: 1-800-FLOWERS.COM, INC.)

NB: Notice that the date above is *before* General Availability, implying it was registered in Sunrise.

Oldest WHOIS history at DomainTools is a few days later:

https://research.domaintools.com/research/whois-history/search/?q=flowers.miami&date=2015-10-02&origin=permalink

Domain ID: 1095074-MMd1
Domain Name: flowers.miami
WHOIS Server: whois-dub.mm-registry.com
Updated Date: 2015-10-01T14:07:07Z
Creation Date: 2015-09-28T17:38:01Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2016-09-28T17:38:01Z Sponsoring Registrar: CSC Corporation Service Company Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 299 Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited

Registrant ID: 34106-Minds
Registrant Name: Domain Administrator
Registrant Organization: 1-800-FLOWERS.COM, INC.
Registrant Street: One Old Country Road, Suite 500 Registrant City: Carle Place Registrant State/Province: NY Registrant Postal Code: 11514 Registrant Country: US Registrant Phone: +1.5162376000 Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.5162376101
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: domainadmin at 1800flowers.com

If we compare the creation date of flowers.miami, it's the same (give or take a few seconds) as Google.miami:

https://whois.domaintools.com/google.miami

Creation Date: 2015-09-28T17:38:25Z

or Yahoo.miami:

https://whois.domaintools.com/yahoo.miami

Creation Date: 2015-09-28T17:38:28Z

or Adsense.miami:

https://whois.domaintools.com/adsense.miami

Creation Date: 2015-09-28T17:37:57Z

All of which were presumably registered via Sunrise.

I'm not going to go through all 1000+ TLDs to check Flowers.TLD (I'd quickly use up all my DomainTools limits! Plus, I have a life.)

But, 1-800-Flowers.com also owns Flowers.Yokohama

https://whois.domaintools.com/flowers.yokohama

and that's not operated by Donuts or by Minds+Machines (it's by GMO Registry). Its creation date is  2014-08-05T06:40:00.0Z

whereas the landrush was a day later:

https://ie.godaddy.com/help/about-yokohama-domain-names-11994

"From August 6, 2014 at 3:00 UTC to September 5, 2014 at 14:59 UTC, customers can purchase .yokohama domain names at a premium price."

Flowers.yokohama has the same creation date/time (to the exact second) as:

Google.Yokohama:

https://whois.domaintools.com/google.yokohama

Creation Date: 2014-08-05T06:40:00.0Z

or Yahoo.Yokohama

https://whois.domaintools.com/yahoo.yokohama

Creation Date: 2014-08-05T06:40:00.0Z

and these would clearly be sunrise registrations.

Is there a (Tunisian) trademark of 1-800-Flowers.com for "FLOWERS" in the TMCH? If so, is it sunrise eligible? If so, are they using it to get Flowers.TLD before anyone else can, in sunrise periods?

If ICANN wants to subsidize higher limits for a DomainTools account, and give me a per diem, I can find more examples, if the above isn't compelling enough evidence.

Or, we can open up the TMCH and see what's hiding there.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos
416-588-0269
http://www.leap.com/

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 9:27 AM, George Kirikos <icann at leap.com> wrote:
> So, if Flowers.delivery *wasn't* a Sunrise registration, then if we 
> examined the TMCH we wouldn't find any recordals (past or present) for 
> "FLOWERS" by 1-800-Flowers.com that were sunrise eligible??
>
> Sincerely,
>
> George Kirikos
> 416-588-0269
> http://www.leap.com/
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 9:24 AM, George Kirikos <icann at leap.com> wrote:
>> How was it created before EAP began, then? Yahoo.delivery and 
>> USPS.delivery weren't sunrise either?? (same creation dates/times, 
>> give or take a few seconds)
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> George Kirikos
>> 416-588-0269
>> http://www.leap.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Jon Nevett <jon at donuts.co> wrote:
>>> George:
>>>
>>> All I'm saying is that flowers.delivery wasn't a sunrise registration.  I'm not commenting on your other points.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 11, 2017, at 9:06 AM, George Kirikos <icann at leap.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Jon Nevett <jon at donuts.co> wrote:
>>>>> That one is not a smoking gun.  It is a legitimate registration by a legitimate entity.
>>>>
>>>> So, let me get this straight. Are you saying that if my company 
>>>> went out and registered a TM in some obscure jurisdiction like 
>>>> Tunisia, for the brand MATH, in the goods and services of "math 
>>>> education", used that mark in the TMCH to register MATH.TLD domains 
>>>> ahead of every other competitor in the math industry during 
>>>> sunrise, and then redirected the resulting domains to Math.com, 
>>>> that would be a "legitimate registration by a legitimate entity"?
>>>>
>>>> I think most people would say "George, you gamed the system." and rightly so.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> George Kirikos
>>>> 416-588-0269
>>>> http://www.leap.com/
>>>
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