[gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+ reduction in sunrise utilization rate per TLD supports EFF call for elimination of sunrise
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Mon Aug 14 10:55:56 UTC 2017
Paul, which I see that famous brands face additional risks, any proposal
to limit protection would open an endless can of worms that I think we
should avoid, if only for simplicities sake. Where would one draw the
line? Is a brand that just did not qualify really that different from a
brand that barely qualifies? How to mitigate the legal risks for those
that do not qualify? Etc, etc.
Essentially, this would propose that a new class of trademarks be
created: Those that deserve special protection. But that is really not
ICANNs role, but a regulatory problem.
Best,
Volker
Am 12.08.2017 um 18:35 schrieb Paul Tattersfield:
>
> Thanks for all the replies. I’ll try George K’s approach and respond
> to all the replies in one place.
>
> Volker Greimann wrote:
> >Why should "Top brands" receive better protection than any other
> (lesser known) brands?
>
> Volker, I’m not sure all marks really need or indeed even benefit from
> Sunrise. Certainly in our market 1 – 500 employees I can’t think of a
> company, including ones which trade around the world rather than just
> their domestic market, for which Sunrise would serve any useful
> purpose. Quite simply they are just not on the radar for abuse that
> Microsoft, PayPal and Apple etc. have to put up with.
>
> If ICANN had taken a different approach to new gTLDs say allowing a
> quite limited number of new gTLDs in each round then Sunrise may have
> remained more critical, however it seems each release of new gTLDs
> generates a lower level and lower level of initial demand for which
> Sunrise is targeted.
>
> George, thanks for the links to the Melbourne IT proposal article at
> Domain Incite. I think the Melbourne IT (High At-Risk Marks (HARM) has
> a number of failings the largest of which is suggesting dictionary
> words should be treated differently. It if is deemed Microsoft
> warrants additional protections then Apple should enjoy the same level
> of protection.
>
> John, I agree the really high profile non-profits and IGOs like UNHCR
> would need to be included.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com
> <mailto:m.alzoba at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello Paul,
>
> I am not sure this method of selection is all inclusive, and thus
> I am afraid we won't be able to use it
> (TMCH is not only for top companies).
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Maxim Alzoba
> Special projects manager,
> International Relations Department,
> FAITID
>
> m. +7 916 6761580 <tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>(+whatsapp)
> skype oldfrogger
>
> Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)
>
>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 16:58, Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup at gmail.com
>> <mailto:gpmgroup at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Could we use a list of the top brands to establish eligibility
>> for sunise to remove gaming once and for all?
>>
>> Here's a list of 500 as an example.
>> http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2012
>> <http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2012>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Paul.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Volker Greimann
>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>
>> I will not dispute the effectiveness of Sunrise periods for
>> rights holders, however there may be better options that
>> provide just as much protection but have less impact on the
>> release of a new TLD.
>>
>> For example, sunrise could be run concurrently with the
>> general launch of a TLD simply by removing the eligible
>> sunrise domain names from the pool of available domain names.
>> Rights holders could still use their TMCH-tokens to register
>> these semi-reserved strings as domain names but the release
>> of the TLD to the general public would not be held back.
>> Other potential registrants would merely receive a notice
>> that this string is reserved until date X due to claimed
>> rights of third parties (which could double as an abbreviated
>> claims notice), or even opt to queue their registration
>> request until the reservation period is over.
>>
>> This would actually solve many of the existing issues.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 11.08.2017 um 15:12 schrieb Nahitchevansky, Georges:
>>
>> I was not going to engage in yet more back and forth on
>> sunrise, but in reading your email, and those of several
>> others, I feel compelled to say something on this by the
>> numbers discussion. This type of metric driven approach
>> is very much akin to driving down a road with blinders on
>> either side. It's a tad pedantic and as we know from
>> history these types of approaches (many times pushed by
>> bureaucrats) can often lead to disastrous decisions (e.g.
>> Soviet style five year plans). You need to look at the
>> overall situation and what is going on, as opposed to
>> just getting caught up in the numbers -- which after all
>> can get sliced and diced any number of ways. The reality
>> is that brand owners are using sunrise to protect their
>> brands in the key extensions that relate to their
>> businesses. The numbers may not be huge per se, but the
>> new gTLD program has pretty much, by all accounts, not
>> been the success that ICANN had hoped for. Moreover, we
>> all know that the success of the extensions has been
>> quite uneven. Some are barely breaking even, some have
>> been a great success, others have failed and yet others
>> have only experienced lackluster results. What all of
>> this means is that some extensions are simply not worth
>> registering in.
>>
>> That being said, sunrise does have an important value. If
>> there are up to 100,000 plus registrations based on bona
>> fide brands, and some on the most valuable brands in the
>> world, then the system is working as it is preventing a
>> significant amount of cybersquatting . If we go by he
>> metrics you love, then it is not rocket science to figure
>> out that a landrush approach is going to lead to a large
>> spike of abuse (as we have seen in the past in no sunrise
>> situations). This in turn leads to significant costs of
>> investigating and pursuing infringements, all of which
>> ultimately leads to more costs to consumers and loss of
>> faith in the integrity of the system -- particularly if
>> consumers get tricked or defrauded by a domain name that
>> appears to be related to a brand (e.g., Gucci.shoes) and
>> which could have been registered during a sunrise period.
>>
>> So while I understand that brand owners are not making
>> sunrise registrations across 1000 plus extensions, the
>> point is that they are generally picking the most logical
>> extensions and are not abusing the sunrise system. So
>> whether the number is one percent or less or ten percent,
>> that number doesn't really tell the story. 100,000 plus
>> sunrise registrations prevents a ton of abuse, which
>> benefits everyone in the end. The numbers only approach
>> really misses the mark. It's like saying that if a
>> disease affects less that 1% of the world population, we
>> should not waste money on finding a cure for it and stop
>> all funding on such research (even though the costs of
>> treating the disease for the less than 1% will be
>> staggeringly high).
>>
>> So in closing, I again urge you to concentrate on trying
>> to find a fix to address the limited speculator issue as
>> opposed to beating a dead horse on the sunrise issue.
>>
>>
>> Original Message
>> From: George Kirikos
>> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 12:22 AM
>> To: gnso-rpm-wg
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+ reduction in sunrise
>> utilization rate per TLD supports EFF call for
>> elimination of sunrise
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Greg Shatan
>> <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>> <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't see the math that created your "talking
>> point" of a "99%+ reduction
>> in sunrise." Can you show your work please?
>>
>> The post at:
>>
>> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2017-August/002321.html
>> <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2017-August/002321.html>
>>
>> showed numerous sunrise statistics, ranging from 15,000
>> on the low end
>> for .mobi (.co was slightly lower, although that's a
>> ccTLD, not a TLD
>> that ICANN is involved with in any way), 32,000 for
>> .asia, 80,000 for
>> .biz/.xxx, and who knows what it was for .info?
>>
>> Even taking the lowest of those (15,000) as the base, 130
>> (average
>> new gTLD sunrise from The Analysis Group report) divided
>> by 15,000 =
>> 0.0087 = 0.87%, which is less than 1%, i.e. a 99%+
>> reduction. Of
>> course, if one chose a higher base (.asia, .xxx, .biz,
>> .etc.), or an
>> average of those other sunrises, the reduction is even
>> greater than if
>> one had used the lowest sunrise (from .mobi).
>>
>> As for your other statement:
>>
>> We can't expect Sunrise registrations to outperform
>> the New gTLD Program generally."
>>
>> While the new gTLD program has been a disaster, it hasn't
>> been an
>> underperformance of 99%+ of expectations (perhaps more
>> like 80% to 90%
>> underperformance). Thus, while it's obvious that both
>> have been
>> failures, sunrise usage is an even greater failure than
>> new gTLDs
>> overall. So, even on that relative scale, the sunrise
>> period should be
>> eliminated.
>>
>> Since I know you'll ask "George, why do you say there's
>> been an 80% or
>> 90% underpeformance for new gTLDs?" let me answer that
>> now to save
>> time. I'll use as my reference (besides the obvious general
>> observations of most informed observers) ICANN's own stats:
>>
>> http://domainincite.com/18857-new-gtld-sales-miss-icann-estimates-by-a-mile
>> <http://domainincite.com/18857-new-gtld-sales-miss-icann-estimates-by-a-mile>
>>
>> where the numbers came in at just 18% of ICANN's original
>> 2014
>> expectations. For the math-challenged, 100% - 18% = 82%
>> as the level
>> of underperformance.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> George Kirikos
>> 416-588-0269 <tel:416-588-0269>
>> http://www.leap.com/
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>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
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66386 St. Ingbert
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