AW: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report - questions

Thomas Keller tom at
Mon Apr 21 08:16:53 UTC 2008

I agree.


Von: owner-council at [mailto:owner-council at] Im
Auftrag von Robin Gross
Gesendet: Samstag, 19. April 2008 23:41
An: Council GNSO
Betreff: Re: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report - questions

I also like the expert panel approach that Chuck suggest below. It will
allow for greater flexibility and a more thorough investigation of the
policy issues at stake before we jump to any particular conclusion.


On Apr 19, 2008, at 4:32 AM, Tim Ruiz wrote:

Chuck, I agree with that approach. In fact, the exchange of questions
and the answers below exemplify why such an approach is necessary.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report - questions
From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes at>
Date: Fri, April 18, 2008 2:52 pm
To: "Liz Gasster" <liz.gasster at>, "Rosette, Kristina"
<krosette at>, <council at>

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but the more I think about the
issue, the more I am convinced that the best thing we could do as a
Council before initiating a PDP is to develop very specific list of
questions and form an expert panel that is tasked with trying to answer
the questions. The expert panel could be formed from volunteers from
the SSAC, the APWG, and constituencies that have expertise related to
the use of fast flux. Such a panel could be given a relatively short
timeline, assuming they can complete the work in that timeline. It is
possible that, if the right experts are included, they might be able to
respond to the questions in a month or two.


From: owner-council at [mailto:owner-council at]
On Behalf Of Liz Gasster
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:19 PM
To: Rosette, Kristina; council at
Subject: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report - questions 

Kristina and all,

Following are responses below from staff where we can. I believe some
of your questions highlight the need for further study (possibly in more
areas than we've identified in the report, as some of your questions

Happy to try to answer further where we can, if you have more questions.
I just want to note again too that given the short time frame to
prepare the report, the breadth of sources we were able to draw upon
were necessarily limited. I really like your idea about noting sources
and including a bibliography when we prepare issues reports in the
future, and I'm going to add this as a suggestion in our GNSO
improvements process so that we capture this idea to consider in the
development of a new policy development process. 


From: owner-council at [mailto:owner-council at]
On Behalf Of Rosette, Kristina
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:00 AM
To: council at
Subject: [council] Fast Flux Report - questions 

Here are some initial questions/requests about the report. I will
forward additional questions soon. 
Page 1: The report states that staff "consulted other appropriate and
relevant sources of information". In the interest of transparency, I
would appreciate having those sources be identified. As a general
note, it may be helpful to all readers of the report if the issues
reports included a bibliography or sources consulted section.
LG -- staff considered the SAC Advisory (SAC 025) and I also consulted
extensively with Lyman Chapin. We referred to the email exchanges on
the SSAC list during the period of time in which the SSAC folks were
discussing fast flux and preparing SAC 025, the presentations and
transcripts from the SSAC workshops in Los Angeles
and Delhi (, and informally with a few
other sources.
Pages 6, 14: One interpretation of the reference to "domains in ccTLDs
are targeted as well" is that there is no "lasting value" to developing
gTLD policy regarding any issue that occurs in both gTLDs and ccTLDs. 
Is this interpretation intended?
LG -- Chuck's comment was right. There could be a benefit to
coordinating with the ccNSO. Not making a judgment on "no lasting
Pages 6, 14: Similarly, one interpretation of the reference to "static
rules through a policy development process might be quickly undermined
by intrepid cybercriminals" is that there can be "no lasting value" to
developing gTLD policy regarding any issue that results from or is
associated with cybercriminals because they move more quickly than the
PDP and, as interpreted by one IPC member, "are smarter than we are". 
Is this interpretation intended?
LG - That is why we mention the importance of developing best practices,
which then can be enhanced and upgraded over time to keep up better with
new techniques developed to undermine existing deterrent techniques. 
Perhaps a policy outcome might point to the need to adopt rigorous best
practices and refresh on an ongoing basis. But my understanding on fast
flux is that these best practices do not necessarily exist today, so the
question might be how to encourage their development in a structured and
focused way, as a necessary precursor to deciding how to encourage or
require their widespread adoption. Might the GNSO Council take on a
convening role here? Or encourage or direct in some other way? In this
context, the inference of concern about "lasting value" of imposing a
specific practice is intended. 
Page 8: For how long and on what scale has proxy redirection been used
to maintain high availability and spread the network load?
LG - We need to study this more. The key question I was raising is,
"are there valid uses that need to be considered, that could be
undermined if certain deterrent steps were imposed?" It is not clear
from our cursory view how broadly this is used - seems also unlikely
that there would be need for such constant and frequent fluxing in this
context, but we couldn't determine for sure either way. 
Page 9: Did more than one person describe evasion of "black holing"
"anecdotally as a possible 'legitimate use'" of fast flux? Any evidence
or research to suggest that it actually happens? 
LG -- This is anecdotal and may only be one entity, another potential
subject of further study.
Page 10: How likely is that fast flux hosting "could be significantly
curtailed by changes in the way in which DNS registries and registrars
currently operate"?
LG - Would need to study further.
Page 11: Is it technically possible now for registries and registrars
to act in two ways set forth in report? Practically possible? If so,
do they? If not, have reasons for not doing so been provided and, if
so, what are they?
LG - Would need to study further.
(I have not included a scope clarification question because I understand
that it has already bee posed.) 
Many thanks. 

Robin Gross, Executive Director
1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA
p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451
w: e: robin at

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