[CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users

Thu Apr 20 20:43:39 UTC 2023

Sigh.

Where did domainers come into this? That indeed seemed like a needless
cheap shot.

As I said before, our role here is to approach this from the PoV of
end-users and potential denial of access to what may be controversial
content. I really don't care about the effects on registrants since they
have constituencies within ICANN that are fully capable of defending their
own interests.

There is every possibility that these changes are in line with other
agreements, or that they simply acknowledge authority that already exists.
What is unclear to me is whether a government in country A can issue a
takedown order for a domain owned in country B that may be breaking the law
in A but not B.
(for example, as calling a war a "war" outside Russia)
As a fledgling YouTube creator I am very aware of the abuse of well-meaning
takedown regulations there, so I am alerted when I see allegations of new
takedown regulations anywhere.

Maybe it is indeed nothing, but I am uninclined to summarily dismiss  it as
Jonathan has without a review from those who can read the changes with a
keener eye than my own.
I am delighted to see Mike on the case and now have increased confidence
that the issue will receive the necessary attention.

- Evan

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 4:20 PM Zak Muscovitch via CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
wrote:

> Jonathan, I don’t appreciate your sentiment of “hating domainers”. It’s
> not conducive to civil discussion amongst stakeholders, and in any event it
> is an overly broad generalization without justification. Moreover,
> attributing Evan's concern to being "spun up by domainers" is another
> unjustified generalization.
>
> Zak Muscovitch
> General Counsel, ICA
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* CPWG <cpwg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Jonathan Zuck via CPWG
> <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 4:12 PM
> *To:* mike palage.com <mike at palage.com>; Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <
> ocl at gih.com>; Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org>; CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users
>
> Yeah, this is much ado about nothing. It's not like some contract can give
> a government permission to seize a domain. Sigh. This is just so ICANN
> can't come after Verisign ( and PIR etc) for accommodating a court order.
>
> For someone who hates the domainers, even more than me, Evan is sure spun
> up by them!
>
> *Jonathan Zuck*
> *Director*, Future of Work Project
> Innovators Network Foundation
> www.InnovatorsNetwork.org
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* CPWG <cpwg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of mike palage.com via
> CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 3:56:38 PM
> *To:* Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>; Evan Leibovitch <
> evan at telly.org>; CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users
>
>
> Hello Olivier,
>
>
>
> Can you provide a public reference to the thread or email list?  I am a
> sucker for subscribing to a good mailing list.
>
>
>
> That being said I would agree with John’s statement. As someone who has
> consulted with many registry operators over the last two decades, the
> language in the .COM and the now proposed .NET registry agreement is not
> inconsistent with standards provisions across the industry.
>
>
>
> Sadly, ICANN only requires Verisign to post its Registry/Registrar
> agreements. However, I was able to quickly find this legal provision from
> EURid in connection with .EU registrations, see
> https://eurid.eu/d/7556497/Terms_and_Conditions_EN.pdf
>
>
>
> Section 6.4 - The Registry shall be entitled to immediately suspend or
> cancel the Domain
>
> Name when the Registrant is in breach of the Rules.
>
>
>
> Section  3. OBLIGATIONS OF THE REGISTRANT
>
>
>
> Throughout the Term, the Registrant has the following obligations:
>
> 1. As referred to in the Registration Policy, to keep its contact
> information accurate, complete, and up-to-date, both (i) with the Registrar
> with whom the Registrant has entered into an Agreement and (ii) with the
> Registry (via the Registrar). Moreover, the Registrant represents and
> warrants that any email address communicated to the Registry shall be a
> functioning e-mail
>
> address;
>
> 2. To use the Domain Name in such a way that does not violate any
> third-party rights, applicable laws, or regulations, including
> discrimination on the basis of race, language, sex, religion, or political
> view;
>
> 3. Not to use the Domain Name (i) in bad faith or (ii) for any unlawful
> purpose.
>
>
>
> Section 4. REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES OF THE REGISTRANT
>
>
>
> The Registrant represents and warrants that:
>
>
>
> 1. it meets the Eligibility Criteria, and it shall inform the Registry
> when it ceases to meet such conditions via its Registrar;
>
> 2. all information provided to the Registry during the Domain Name
> registration process is true, complete, and accurate;
>
> 3. the Domain Name registration is made in good faith, for a lawful
> purpose, and does not infringe the rights of any third party;
>
> 4. the Domain Name is not contrary to public policy or morality (e.g. is
> not obscene or offensive), and is not unlawful;
>
> 5. throughout the Term, it shall abide by these Terms and Conditions and
> any and all applicable Rules.
>
>
>
> Therefore while the Verisign lawyers were a bit verbose our friends at
> EURid were much more succinct.
>
>
>
> Net Net – I personally am not losing any sleep over the proposed mark-up
> to the RRA. That being said there are A LOT of other provisions in the
> existing/proposed .NET agreement that are giving me angst, so please tune
> in next Wednesday when Bill and I share our initial assessment and
> concerns.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* CPWG <cpwg-bounces at icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Olivier MJ
> Crépin-Leblond via CPWG
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 3:28 PM
> *To:* Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org>; CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users
>
>
>
> Forgot the reference:
>
> https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/registry-agreements/com/com-amend-3-pdf-27mar20-en.pdf
>
> On 20/04/2023 20:26, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
>
> Worth noting: John Levine points out on another mailing list that the
> changes are the same as those already integrated in the .COM Registry
> Agreement 3 years ago and that did not cause as many ripples back then.
>
> He also mentions that governments seize gTLD domains all the time when
> they get a suitable
> court order. But of course I guess this is all in the details.
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Olivier
>
>
> On 20/04/2023 17:12, Evan Leibovitch via CPWG wrote:
>
>
> https://freespeech.com/2023/04/19/red-alert-icann-and-verisign-proposal-would-allow-any-government-in-the-world-to-seize-domain-names/
>
>
>
> Let's briefly put aside the boasting about ALAC's incremental involvement
> in the trivial agendas set by ICANN's vested interests. Here's a real
> example of an issue that can negatively affect end-users. The aims of the
> proposed modification may be laudable, but there's too much room for
> arbitrariness and too much potential to curb political speech unwanted by a
> government.
>
>
>
> BTW ... Why was this not already flagged by ALAC as cause for concern? Why
> did I have to find out about this in the media rather than from the inside.
> Was ALAC intending to ignore it?
>
>
>
> This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. ALAC is obsessed with the trivial
> and the self-absorbed, but asleep during the issues that actually affect
> the constituency we're supposed to serve.
>
>
>
> Does ALAC have what it takes to fight for the public interest on something
> that actually matters?
>
> Is it capable of balancing the various intertwining issues? If the CPWG
> meets on this issue I'll be there.
>
>
> Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
>
> @evanleibovitch / @el56
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
>
> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>
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