[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Principle on Proportionality for "Thin Data"access
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Thu Jun 1 16:39:33 UTC 2017
I am not saying that publishing the creation date is screwing over
people, I merely pointed out that it is currently being used for that
very purpose. Domain registrant are getting conned, abused and worse
because that data point is being used (in connection with other data
points) This data point allows this abuse to be much more targeted and
therefore successful.
I am sure there are other purposes that it is being used for as well,
some honorable, some useful, some neutral to the overall state of the
universe, but in the end I merely asked if it was stricly necessary for
the purpose of the operation of the internet, without making any
assumption on other yet to be defined purposes.
Best,
Volker
Am 01.06.2017 um 18:34 schrieb John Bambenek:
> Because you a priori invalidate all our data and use cases as
> irrelevant. The operations of the internet are more complicated than
> mere transferring a domain for registrar to operator.
>
> I gave you an example of using creation date as a factor in filtering.
> You immediately labeled it as screwing over people. Do you really
> expect me to keep jumping through your hoops? I mean I am just a mere
> self-proclaimed security researcher.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 1, 2017, at 11:22, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net
> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
>> Note that I did not say "a need" in general, but specifically "a need
>> for the purpose of the operationality of the internet". I have not
>> seen any convincing use cases for that need for these three data points.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> VG
>>
>>
>> Am 01.06.2017 um 18:19 schrieb John Bambenek:
>>> The people who are engaged daily on anti-abuse are saying yes. Why
>>> are those who are not engaged in anti-abuse so eager to tell us what
>>> we need or don't need in doing our jobs? How many ways and use cases
>>> do we have to present until its accepted that, yes, the anti-abuse
>>> community needs this?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 04:25, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even if there if no PII in thin data (and I am leaning to that
>>>> direction myself), if there really a need for all these fields to
>>>> be public for the purpose of the operationality of the internet? I
>>>> am thinking of the created, updated and expiration dates in
>>>> particular since those are the ones leading to the most abusive use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 31.05.2017 um 19:22 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:
>>>>> Thin Whois data doesn't have PII - We were saying that for
>>>>> registration DETAILS that can be queried from the existence of a
>>>>> domain name (which are NOT in thin Whois data), the way to deal
>>>>> with that is informed consent. The thin Whois data is
>>>>> cross-referenced against the domain name that was created. The
>>>>> domain itself exists. We very much can say that there is no PII in
>>>>> thin Whois data for domain names. DNS queries and SOA records are
>>>>> not part of this working group. And the fact you can use the Whois
>>>>> PROTOCOL to query RIRs also has nothing whatsoever to do with the
>>>>> Whois DATABASE, especially thin Whois. We can still be privacy
>>>>> champions without turning everything into a privacy concern,
>>>>> especially where none exists. The privacy issues to the extent
>>>>> they do exist, are not within the subject matter at issue. And
>>>>> therefore, there is simply no proportionality principle that need
>>>>> be applied here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 31 May 2017 at 20:10 Michael Peddemors
>>>>> <michael at linuxmagic.com <mailto:michael at linuxmagic.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17-05-31 10:07 AM, allison nixon wrote:
>>>>> > the rest of it can't be. You can't put a DNS query behind a
>>>>> EULA. We
>>>>> > can't pretend there are restrictions on this data.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> We aren't discussing DNS or any other places that data is
>>>>> available as
>>>>> part of this working group. Only the informed consent of data
>>>>> held in
>>>>> whois thin data.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "Catch the Magic of Linux..."
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>>>>> Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic
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>>>>> --
>>>>> jonathan matkowsky, vp - ip & head of global brand threat mitigation
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>
>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - legal department -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
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>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>> Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.net
>> www.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu
>>
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>> Web:www.key-systems.net /www.RRPproxy.net
>> www.domaindiscount24.com /www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu
>>
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>
>>
>>
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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