[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, AC Recording, Attendance & AC Chat for Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call on 28 March 2017
Terri Agnew
terri.agnew at icann.org
Tue Mar 28 19:06:28 UTC 2017
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email. The MP3 and
Adobe Connect recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call
held on Tuesday, 28 March 2017 at 17:00 UTC.
MP3: <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-28mar17-en.mp3>
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-28mar17-en.mp3
Adobe Connect Recording:
<https://participate.icann.org/p6yyqy3g6g5/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=0c7bb89de470d93f
84a162222187b6d01d5528430967df8b53079b097215aeae>
https://participate.icann.org/p6yyqy3g6g5/
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/>
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
Agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/pLzRAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri
---------------
AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG Tuesday, 28 March 2017
Terri Agnew:Welcome to the GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group
teleconference on Tuesday, 28 March 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes.
Terri Agnew:agenda wiki page:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_p
LzRAw
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
pLzRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8
E&s=1QzgQgalEFpobLuD4opGY_ZGudMiwbxAhnhxF9KkWec&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8E&s=1Q
zgQgalEFpobLuD4opGY_ZGudMiwbxAhnhxF9KkWec&e=
Chris Pelling:Afternoon all :)
Theo Geurts:'lo
Andrew Sullivan:I can only join for a short time
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I have an update to SOI - aadded RDS PDP WG & RPM
PDP WG to .12. of the form
Venkata A:Good Morning Everyone
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:Hello everybody. I will be off for short periods
since I am boiling maple sap for maple syrup, and the wood stove needs
feeding (-:
Volker Greimann:sounds like a fun activity, Sam
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:I have a question that I will also post to the
discussion list. It is not for answering here. Does any one have knowledge
of and experience with Octree-Related Data Structures and Algorithms? There
may come a time when that knowledge is valuable here.
Chris Pelling:Somebody needs to mute their Mic please
Chris Pelling:not Chuck
Chris Pelling::)
Lisa Phifer:https://community.icann.org/display/gTLDRDS/WG+Charter
Lisa
Phifer:http://gnso.icann.org/council/annex-1-gnso-wg-guidelines-08apr11-en.p
df
Terri Agnew:everyone can scroll themselves
Lisa Phifer:These results, and all other meeting materials, can be
downloaded here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_p
LzRAw
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
pLzRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8
E&s=1QzgQgalEFpobLuD4opGY_ZGudMiwbxAhnhxF9KkWec&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8E&s=1Q
zgQgalEFpobLuD4opGY_ZGudMiwbxAhnhxF9KkWec&e=
Sara Bockey:Interesting. I completed the poll but I don't see myself
listed. Error in the poll?
Marina Lewis:Hi everyone...sorry to join late. I'm also on the phone
bridge.
Lisa Phifer:@Sara, I will check
Lisa Phifer:@Sara, I do not see you having submitted a response to this
poll. Could you have responded to a previous poll?
Sara Bockey:No. It was this one.
Lisa Phifer:@Sara, let's discuss offline afterward to determine when, etc
Kal Feher:low volume Andrew
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):timestamp allows to identify particular persons who
answer , so we could simlify it, just adding the name :)
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):or to remove the timestamp
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I meant in the slidedeck
Lisa Phifer:@Maxim, the timestamp cannot be removed from raw data. Refer
to previous discussion and decision on how poll data will be collected and
published
Andrew Sullivan:As long as _somewhere_ we capture the resolution stuff, I
don't care. but not having ns, or being on hold, or whatever, is of course
part of resolving
Terri Agnew:finding echo
Andrew Sullivan:I may drop.
Kal Feher:ns details and epp status are def useful for troubleshooting.
Stephanie Perrin:WHile I hesitate to opine on things like DNS where I am
really still far from sure I understand it......I agree with Marc on this.
Lisa Phifer:Alternative: "A purpose of gTLD registration data is to
provide information useful in trouble-shooting problems in resolution of a
domain name on the Internet."
Greg Shatan:Is that a use, a purpose or both?
Greg Shatan:If the RDS provides info on resolution, that would seem to be
a purpose. Even if DNS (zone files) also contain that info.
Greg Shatan:If they are not separated, does this mean these are a single
purpose?
Lisa Phifer:@Greg, either information about resolution is a purpose or it
isn't - it doesn't matter if it's a separate purpose
Marina Lewis:Is there any harm in utilizing the current definition we have
now? Can we re-visit later on if we find that it does not work? I feel
like we're splitting hairs and consuming a great deal of time unnecessarily
at this point.
Terri Agnew:Juan Manuel Rojas just joined on audio only
Greg Shatan:If we are coming up with a list. of multiple purposes, there is
no reason to combine different purposes into a single item.
Sara Bockey:Can you state the revised wording?
Lisa Phifer:Alternative: "A purpose of gTLD registration data is to
provide information useful in trouble-shooting problems in resolution of a
domain name on the Internet."
Sara Bockey:thanks....just want to make sure I knew what we were voting on
Lisa Phifer: "1) A purpose of gTLD registration data is to provide
information about the lifecycle of a domain name." would remain as-is.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):identification of the party which owns the domain?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):ok
Greg Shatan:This is only "a" purpose. Not "the" purpose. More purposes
will follow. Or am I wrong?
Volker Greimann:As for a purpose, should we not also define for whom the
information is provided? That definition may become necessary with relation
to data protection requirements. If we define a purpose, , we need to be
very specific
Volker Greimann:down the road
Volker Greimann:+1 Chuck.
Terri Agnew:finding line that is crackling
Kal Feher:yes. disrupted audio for me
Greg Shatan:Key punch operator?
Sara Bockey:Question. After the last poll there seemed to be support for
language that did not include "authoritative". 50% supported a purpose of
RDS is to facilitate dissemination of gTLD registration data, such as domain
names and their domain contacts and name servers, in accordance with
applicable policy. Curious why that wasn't the start point for this poll.
Lisa Phifer:@Sara, we had already polled on that, so we polled on a
proposed revision only.
Andrew Sullivan:must drop at least for a bit but likely won't be back.
apologies; ietf week here.
Lisa Phifer:@Sara, possibly when we poll on rewording, we could ask if
people prefer original wording, revised wording, or something else, if that
would be helpful.
Sara Bockey:@Lisa, it just seems that the results of the last poll were
discarded
Lisa Phifer:@Sara the goal is to move towards consensus on revised
language but I see your point
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):tech meaning of authoritativeness , to avoid
confusion ?
Chris Pelling:My apologies, I have to drop now, Ill catch up on mp3
recording
Greg Shatan:Using iPad Pro -- echo comes before I disconnect microphone.
Lisa Phifer:The requirement should drive implementation decisions
Lisa Phifer:If it's not a requirement, implementation need not provide it.
Or vice versa.
Greg Shatan:What is the "purpose" of non-authoritative data?
Sara Bockey:But ultimately the registant data is coming from the
registrant or is this only re thin data - technical data?
Lisa Phifer:bad data is not the same as non-authoritative data
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Sara , Registries can make self registrations, the
same for Registrars
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):works
Vicky Sheckler:still disagree with stephanie. Not surei if concept of
authoritative shoudl be a purpose, or a requirement, but it would be useful
to have some concept that the data source is the authortative soruce for the
data, whether itts in a federated or centraized cystem
Vicky Sheckler:system - sorry
Michael Palage:The term "authoritative" is often used in Registry
Registrar Agreement (RRA) to cite which data is authoritative when there is
a conflict beetween Registrar and Registry databases. This is a important
definition which has real world implications
John Bambenek:For the record, I would emphatically agree that
authoritative be included.... and it's most basic level SOMEONE needs to
know WHO owns a domain to authorize transfers, make changes, etc. Where
that happens is another question, but something somewhere has to be
authoritative.
Kal Feher:@greg non-authoritative data is a representation of what the
entity has (such as the Registry), but is explicitly not represented from
the true source of that data
Kal Feher:the true source being the Registrant
Kal Feher:or registrar
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):technologically authoritatively ?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):not legally
Sara Bockey:Defining the term would help - just so there is no
misinterpretation 8 mos down the road
Sara Bockey:Understood. Thank you!
Lisa Phifer:Can we ask a few people to bring back a definition to the WG?
Stephanie Perrin:@Lisa yes, I apologize, I was talking in shorthand. We had
a lengthy discussion on the matter, as to what authorititative means. One
can have authoritatively sourced bad data. But including authoritative here
seems to me to presume decisions....
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):may we add "further clarification might be
required?"
Marika Konings:You may want to consider the definition used in the Thick
WHOIS final report? "Authoritative, with respect to provision of Whois
services, shall be interpreted as to signify the single database within a
hierarchical database structure holding the data that is assumed to be the
final authority regarding the question of which record shall be considered
accurate and reliable in case of conflicting records; administered by a
single administrative [agent] and consisting of data provided by the
registrants of record through their registrars." A proposed shorter version
is "the data set to be relied upon in case of doubt"."
Marika Konings:correct
tobrien:+1 John Bambenek
Lisa Phifer:Captured in notes already
Lisa Phifer:This was discussed at ICANN58; anyone working on this may want
to consult our F2F meeting notes for the back and forth on this topic
John Bambenek:Re: q4: If accuracy is going to be a requirement of
registration data, SOMETHING has to enable enforcing it. It makes sense
some of this should be built-in to RDS, but that need not be only place.
For instance, something to flag the various domains rigestered with phone
numbers of 000 000 0000 etc.
Marika Konings:as far as I am aware this is the only definition of the
term authoritative in a GNSO context so if that does not align with what
this WG understands with authoritative, it is important to define the term
to avoid any kind of confusion or references to previous work that has been
done on this term.
Lisa Phifer:At one point, this purpose said "promote accuracy" and it then
moved to "facilitate accuracy"
Marc Anderson:@Marika, I agree it's very important that we define the term
to avoid confusion. As Lisa pointed out it's clear from our discussion that
we don't all have the same starting point which makes it difficult to get to
consensus.
Lisa Phifer:Language Chuck is asking about: "5) A purpose of RDS policy is
to facilitate fulfilling requirements for the accuracy of gTLD registration
data."
Greg Shatan:Maybe we need to ask "Provide the rationale for agreeing" and
not just the "rationale for disagreeing.".
Lisa Phifer:Perhaps some good that comes from this is that we have a few
key concepts to define: "authoritative data" and "data accuracy"
Greg Shatan:I would love for those 17 people to provide their rationales
now.... :-)
Marina Lewis:We have been talking about this issue since the tall.
Please, we need to move on. Can we just pick something and agree that we
can change it later if it doesn't work?
Marc Anderson:@Lisa I think it would be worth the time/effort to have a
few key terms defined such as authoritative and accurate at least for
purposes of this working group.
Fabricio Vayra:COMMENT: So we are saying the purpose of RDS to ensure
accuracy? That makes the RDS a verification tool, but how does that help
domain name owners mange their domains?
Juan Manuel Rojas:How we are going to deal "accuracy" vs "reality" of
data?
Lisa Phifer:@Fab, I think "ensure" got rejected awhile back.
Stephanie Perrin:Let the record show that Greg and I agree, I think. We
may have duelling footnotes, but I think we need to move forward.
Stephanie Perrin:I am trying to figure out how to reserve the right to
object, and not be caught up on the gotchas.
Fabricio Vayra:COMMENT: Accuracy seems to be a requirement, not a purpose
Lisa Phifer:Proposed footnote: "Accuracy" as it pertains to the RDS will
be defined later in this PDP.
Farell FOLLY (Africa 2.0):Anyway, in the final document we are going to
include the definitions (intended meaning related to the context) of all
those confusing words and terms, aren't we ?
Stephanie Perrin:I like Lisa's proposal. Spring n Montreal also sounds
good....
Lisa Phifer:for what it's worth, we have a charter question on Accuracy -
we haven't deliberated on it yet
Greg Shatan:Could add that to the fn.
Greg Shatan:Iterative and circular can sometimes be confusingly similar.
The difference is that an iterative process makes progress, while a circular
one doesn't.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):european ones will have to obey ... btw - qute
interesting URL for GDPR understaning
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eugdpr.org_
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.eugdpr.org_&d=DwICa
Q&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Q
fqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8E&s=sQAT2NO907
Uju9nvrO4io5b8PAU_bKoBEi2yOI_gSrY&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8E&s=sQ
AT2NO907Uju9nvrO4io5b8PAU_bKoBEi2yOI_gSrY&e=
Vicky Sheckler:the reguation is an incremental step from the Eu data
protection directive - agree with theo
Nathalie Coupet:I volunteer
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*quite ... and the most interesting part is :
Increased Territorial Scope (extra-territorial applicability)
Lisa Phifer:Susan volunteered
Theo Geurts:I can reachout to all ccTLDs registries.
Vicky Sheckler:thanks susan!
Vicky Sheckler:@theo - let's work on the questions together first. thanks!
Theo Geurts:@Vicky makes sense :)
Lisa Phifer:Question: By ICANN60, could we be ready to start drafting our
first initial report?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):60+ ?
Lisa Phifer:Note that means touching on all 5 questions (not just the 3 we
discussed already) at least to some degree, and probably more than "thin
data"
Kal Feher:need to drop off
Lisa Phifer:Work plan:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_o
IxlAw
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
oIxlAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8
E&s=ePd9aOCimkplSwDBAc2ngKUR40haEEJGK_3X9FuMg14&e>
&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=ZkUclCQQ1PQi9nOhOeqWYYO3t437nT5bAIjfd3WZP8E&s=eP
d9aOCimkplSwDBAc2ngKUR40haEEJGK_3X9FuMg14&e=
Lisa Phifer:These questions are reflected in work plan but not the
separation of thin/thick - we can add that
Terri Agnew:Next Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group call Tuesday, 04 April
2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
Venkata A:Good Day
Juan Manuel Rojas:Thanks all.
Nathalie Coupet:Bye
Juan Manuel Rojas:Bye all
Patrick Lenihan:Thanks to Each and All! :-)
Greg Shatan:Thanks, Chuck and all!
Theo Geurts:cya
Vicky Sheckler:bye
Sam Lanfranco npoc/csih:bye
Marina Lewis:Thanks all - bye
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