[ioepanel] Strategy Panel on ICANN's Role in Internet Governance Ecosystem

Tue Nov 19 04:40:05 UTC 2013

Pindar, all,

I think that the question of "a set of principles for Internet Governance"
needs a bit more discussion in depth before we decide whether, and if so
how, we address it.

My view:

There have been over the last couple of years many groups trying to
establish sets of principles (and rights) related to Internet Governance.
Hartmut and Debbie have given us two just today. In the IGF contex there
are maybe two dozen proposals from different origins. You win if you bet
that they are different. They don't only differ in how they slice the pie
but also in how the pie is made.

That means that not all give the same weight to, say freedom of expression.
Some start with the right to life. Others are more concentrated on
Internetsy stuff.

One approach I like particularly is the one by Frank LaRue, the UN Special
Rapporteur for Freedom of Expression, an eminently reasonable guy. He says
simply (and was picked up as a resolution in the UN Human Rights area): let
the same rights be true online as are offline. Don't do anything online
that curtails a right that exists offline. And, if you are going to limit a
right (say freedom of speech is limited by slander, national security and
public peace; or say you need to violate privacy for surveillance) let the
same rules apply: the limitation of a right has to occur exceptionally, for
a very limited and well defined purpose, and explicitly by law or judicial
order.

I know this is now "rights" and not "principles" but these stark examples
illustrate what happens with either rights or principles: there are many
views and ways to express them, and they don't really converge.

In fact, in the IGF environment there are not one but several efforts to
compile the sets of principles, to collate them, and to see whether there
are any commonalities.

Coming back to ICANN very specifically, you PIndar (and Vint and I for
sure!) may remember the time and discussions it took us to hammer together
the Core Values embodied in ICANN's bylaws. And they still have a lot of
leeway: "free markets where appropriate"...

So I'm not keen in trying to produce a complete set of principles or
anything like it. Maybe a set of minimal principles and still we'll see
trouble among us.

I'll take this one step further: this evening in Buenos Aires Fadi
addressed LACRALO (Latin America and Caribbean At-Large (Internet users)
Organization, a body of ICANN. He said one objective of our and especially
the "big" panel chaired by President Ilves of Estonia is to define
multistakeholder in one clear, single definition, because there are too
many and that causes trouble.

My only comment on that (which I will convey to him in the morning) is that
having multiple definitions of multistakeholderism instead of a single one
is not a but, it's a feature.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:31 PM, pindar wong <pindar.wong at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yup... understood. That's a very vaild point that principles stand or fall
> over details how their are stewarded.
>
> I guess my point is that we have to start from 1st principles -- such as a
> statement of principles, against which all else may be both self-referenced
> and externally referenced.
>
> Clearly hypocrisy can take many forms, but if there is a modicum of
> transparency and openness, then the difference between practice and theory
> will be publicly evident -- and therein lies a world of difference.
>
> Cheers,
>
> p.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
> apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>
>>  Pindar,
>>
>>  this is one more of this things that sound good till tested, gamed, and
>> obliterated. Like privacy statements on websites, or the small letters in
>> software licenses.
>>
>>  Do note also the ITU's definition of its being multistakeholder (as one
>> example.)
>>
>>  Compliance mechanisms, auditing, opportunities for decision appeal,
>> reversal and redress... now that's another level but also another level of
>> cost. Witness ATRT (1, 2, and who knows what's next.)
>>
>>  Yours,
>>
>>  Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>>  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>>
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>   ------------------------------
>> *Desde:* ecosystem-panel-bounces at icann.org [
>> ecosystem-panel-bounces at icann.org] en nombre de pindar wong [
>> pindar.wong at gmail.com]
>> *Enviado el:* lunes, 18 de noviembre de 2013 17:32
>> *Hasta:* ioepanel at icann.org
>> *CC:* ecosystem-panel at icann.org
>> *Asunto:* Re: Strategy Panel on ICANN's Role in Internet Governance
>> Ecosystem [ioepanel]
>>
>>   Greetings,
>>
>> Perhaps a 'Public Statement of Principles' is itself a  principle that
>> should be considered for institutions that claim to have public interest
>> objectives in the Internet Governance Ecosystem.
>>
>>  p.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:53 AM, Carlton Samuels <
>> carlton.samuels at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Thanks for sharing Debbie. Much obliged.
>>> I note that NZ has institutional objectives anchored in principles.
>>>  Nice.
>>>
>>>  -Carlton
>>>
>>>
>>> ==============================
>>> Carlton A Samuels
>>> Mobile: 876-818-1799
>>> *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
>>> =============================
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Debbie Monahan <dnc at dnc.org.nz>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  The InternetNZ Group has also documented its principles.  There is
>>>> one document of Policy Principles and another of Top Level Domains
>>>> Principles.
>>>>
>>>>  https://internetnz.net.nz/principles
>>>>
>>>>  Cheers
>>>> Debbie
>>>>
>>>>  On 19/11/2013, at 6:51 AM, Hartmut Richard Glaser <glaser at cgi.br>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brazilian Principles for the Governance and use of the Internet
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cgi.br/regulamentacao/pdf/resolucao-2009-003-pt-en-es.pdf
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Debbie Monahan
>>>> Domain Name Commissioner
>>>> +64 21 891 620
>>>> www.dnc.org.nz
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
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